Lord of the Rings series!?
- Eldy
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Re: Lord of the Rings series!?
Welp, I'm an idiot who should have double-checked the article date after seeing that shared elsewhere. Or just ... not been forgetful of ROP news from less than two months ago.
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Re: Lord of the Rings series!?
"Spirits in the shape of hawks and eagles flew ever to and from his halls; and their eyes could see to the depths of the seas, and pierce the hidden caverns beneath the world."
- Eldy
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Re: Lord of the Rings series!?
I've been poking around on ROP Twitter tonight after a friend linked me to a meme account, and it's a bit of a surreal experience seeing a community (insofar as Twitter fosters communities) of people who enjoy the show without reservation or qualification. I think it's good to remind myself that this is a big fandom, and neither us crusty traditional message board types nor the Redditors who are sorta the heirs to message boards are the sum total of it. But the feeling of culture shock is still weird. It reminds me of checking Twitter and Tumblr back when the the Hobbit movies were new, and I'd shake my head and have to go, "Oh, right, there are people who genuinely love these films." And then I'd feel old, even though I was 19.
Anyway, while I can't help but cringe a little, some of the memes are actually pretty decent if you don't mind Zoomer humor.
Anyway, while I can't help but cringe a little, some of the memes are actually pretty decent if you don't mind Zoomer humor.
Re: Lord of the Rings series!?
Huh?
'You just said "your getting shorter": you've obviously been drinking too much ent-draught and not enough Prim's.' - Jude
- Eldy
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Re: Lord of the Rings series!?
I don't think it's really the sort of thing that can be explained.
Re: Lord of the Rings series!?
Yeah. True. I keep sending my husband memes of LOTR + academia and he’s like “huh?” While I’m dying laughing.
'You just said "your getting shorter": you've obviously been drinking too much ent-draught and not enough Prim's.' - Jude
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Re: Lord of the Rings series!?
Hi all,
I intend to write a long review of the entire season of the show once it’s over, but as someone who feels this is the most Tolkienesque adaptation I could have possibly hoped for (and one that dips its pen into Tolkien’s thematic well much more deeply for me than the films), I wanted to quickly weigh in on one of the elements that has frustrated a number of fans, but which I think is central to the excellent of the scripts: the relationship between Galadriel and Halbrand (who I am 100% convinced is Sauron, and will assume so here). This is drawn from my comments on the main TORN Discord server, where I have been active due to the format (it’s much easier for me to post there from my phone, and as I am traveling constantly, I really only have time to post that way).
One of the boldest and unexpected choices the showrunners have made is drawing out the similarities in the motivations of the elves of this age (including Galadriel) with the motivations of the forces of evil (Halbrand/ Sauron and Adar). And they deserve a lot of praise for it. I think that nuance will be ESSENTIAL for selling the ring plot, as it demonstrates just how close good and evil intentions can be. Namely, both the human and elven desire to halt the march of death and decay, thus creating dominions/ heavens on Earth that challenge the Valar and Eru, and Sauron’s desire for dominion in Middle Earth. By showing just how close to each other the flawed elves of the age are (and the men), with Sauron himself, they’ve already sold the ring plot before it even begins. This is a major feat, in my view, and one that will be far more nuanced than LOTR’s “it’s an evil addiction” interpretation. The rings being considered instruments for good by the elves, but them confusing good with the folly of arresting the natural course of things (which is ultimately Morgothian in inspiration) is exactly the kind of nuance I‘ve wanted from a Tolkien adaptation for thirty years. And they’re doing it!
Essentially, Galadriel has a desire for the power to reverse the death and destruction that followed the War of Wrath, which is rooted in the trauma and massive death that resulted (which may drive her to overcome that death). Which will ultimately lead her to use a ring for creating a version of Valinor in Middle Earth (Lothlórien). Seeing her determination along those lines will help make good sense of why she does what she does. And it will show that the creation of Lórien is simply a…lesser but similar evil to the creation of Mordor. It’s a more subtle expression of a desire for dominion. She is, in effect, an elven Sauron, to put it very simply and provocatively!
I exaggerate my above point a bit, just to hammer the point home. But that’s essentially what the writers are saying when they say GG can’t distinguish her from the evil she’s fighting. It’s her desire to dominate and obliterate these agents of destruction and decay that makes her akin to Sauron. And this may be what’s behind their close bond in season 1. And that will carry on into her acceptance of a ring, and her use of that ring in creating and ruling over a singular heaven in Middle Earth. She would ultimately rather rule over a kingdom of beauty, light, and unending life, in opposition to the evil forces of the land, than crawl meekly back to Valinor. And that’s a Morgothian/ Sauronian impulse. They may (eventually) have deep differences in what the end result should look like (Galadriel - kingdom of beauty and unending life: Sauron - kingdom of despair), but the intention and impulse is quite similar. And I suspect that Sauron’s initial intentions to “heal” Middle Earth are similar to Galadriel’s (as in, a desire to halt death and decay), but that he will later be convinced of the need for a more…minimalist design approach - fire, smoke and barren rock.
Ultimately, both Galadriel and Sauron desire power.
I intend to write a long review of the entire season of the show once it’s over, but as someone who feels this is the most Tolkienesque adaptation I could have possibly hoped for (and one that dips its pen into Tolkien’s thematic well much more deeply for me than the films), I wanted to quickly weigh in on one of the elements that has frustrated a number of fans, but which I think is central to the excellent of the scripts: the relationship between Galadriel and Halbrand (who I am 100% convinced is Sauron, and will assume so here). This is drawn from my comments on the main TORN Discord server, where I have been active due to the format (it’s much easier for me to post there from my phone, and as I am traveling constantly, I really only have time to post that way).
One of the boldest and unexpected choices the showrunners have made is drawing out the similarities in the motivations of the elves of this age (including Galadriel) with the motivations of the forces of evil (Halbrand/ Sauron and Adar). And they deserve a lot of praise for it. I think that nuance will be ESSENTIAL for selling the ring plot, as it demonstrates just how close good and evil intentions can be. Namely, both the human and elven desire to halt the march of death and decay, thus creating dominions/ heavens on Earth that challenge the Valar and Eru, and Sauron’s desire for dominion in Middle Earth. By showing just how close to each other the flawed elves of the age are (and the men), with Sauron himself, they’ve already sold the ring plot before it even begins. This is a major feat, in my view, and one that will be far more nuanced than LOTR’s “it’s an evil addiction” interpretation. The rings being considered instruments for good by the elves, but them confusing good with the folly of arresting the natural course of things (which is ultimately Morgothian in inspiration) is exactly the kind of nuance I‘ve wanted from a Tolkien adaptation for thirty years. And they’re doing it!
Essentially, Galadriel has a desire for the power to reverse the death and destruction that followed the War of Wrath, which is rooted in the trauma and massive death that resulted (which may drive her to overcome that death). Which will ultimately lead her to use a ring for creating a version of Valinor in Middle Earth (Lothlórien). Seeing her determination along those lines will help make good sense of why she does what she does. And it will show that the creation of Lórien is simply a…lesser but similar evil to the creation of Mordor. It’s a more subtle expression of a desire for dominion. She is, in effect, an elven Sauron, to put it very simply and provocatively!
I exaggerate my above point a bit, just to hammer the point home. But that’s essentially what the writers are saying when they say GG can’t distinguish her from the evil she’s fighting. It’s her desire to dominate and obliterate these agents of destruction and decay that makes her akin to Sauron. And this may be what’s behind their close bond in season 1. And that will carry on into her acceptance of a ring, and her use of that ring in creating and ruling over a singular heaven in Middle Earth. She would ultimately rather rule over a kingdom of beauty, light, and unending life, in opposition to the evil forces of the land, than crawl meekly back to Valinor. And that’s a Morgothian/ Sauronian impulse. They may (eventually) have deep differences in what the end result should look like (Galadriel - kingdom of beauty and unending life: Sauron - kingdom of despair), but the intention and impulse is quite similar. And I suspect that Sauron’s initial intentions to “heal” Middle Earth are similar to Galadriel’s (as in, a desire to halt death and decay), but that he will later be convinced of the need for a more…minimalist design approach - fire, smoke and barren rock.
Ultimately, both Galadriel and Sauron desire power.
“He went alone to look in Mirrormere.” - The Book of Mazarbul
- Voronwë the Faithful
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Re: Lord of the Rings series!?
Thanks for weighing in, SW! That's a great post.
Your comments about Galadriel parallel my characterization of her as being "Galadëanor." Once I accepted that characterization and released my expectations of how she should be presented, my appreciation of the show has increased immeasurably.
Your comments about Galadriel parallel my characterization of her as being "Galadëanor." Once I accepted that characterization and released my expectations of how she should be presented, my appreciation of the show has increased immeasurably.
"Spirits in the shape of hawks and eagles flew ever to and from his halls; and their eyes could see to the depths of the seas, and pierce the hidden caverns beneath the world."
Re: Lord of the Rings series!?
SW, I use Tapatalk on my phone to post on HoF. Just FYI.
'You just said "your getting shorter": you've obviously been drinking too much ent-draught and not enough Prim's.' - Jude
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Re: Lord of the Rings series!?
I also used to use Tapatalk. But now it freezes constantly for me and it takes ten minutes just to type once sentence. Tried uninstalling and reinstalling to no avail.
“He went alone to look in Mirrormere.” - The Book of Mazarbul
Re: Lord of the Rings series!?
The mobile version of the site is pretty good now.
The Vinyamars on Stage! This time at Bag End
- Stranger Wings
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Re: Lord of the Rings series!?
Yeah, that’s the way for me now.
“He went alone to look in Mirrormere.” - The Book of Mazarbul
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Re: Lord of the Rings series!?
When Númenor is destroyed there’s going to be a scene with a mariner husband and wife.
Husband: “The sea is always right...”
Wife: “Yeah, yeah, that’s what you always say when you’ve done something wrong.”
Husband: “No, I mean the sea is always right there by the cliffside, and now it’s…right here.”
The end.
Husband: “The sea is always right...”
Wife: “Yeah, yeah, that’s what you always say when you’ve done something wrong.”
Husband: “No, I mean the sea is always right there by the cliffside, and now it’s…right here.”
The end.
“He went alone to look in Mirrormere.” - The Book of Mazarbul
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Re: Lord of the Rings series!?
My heart is forever in the Shire.
- Voronwë the Faithful
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Re: Lord of the Rings series!?
"Spirits in the shape of hawks and eagles flew ever to and from his halls; and their eyes could see to the depths of the seas, and pierce the hidden caverns beneath the world."
- Dave_LF
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Re: Lord of the Rings series!?
Proto Baggins and Samwise Gam-she
- Voronwë the Faithful
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Re: Lord of the Rings series!?
I found this entertaining. His enthusiasm is infectious, both for the things he liked and the things he thought were bad.
"Spirits in the shape of hawks and eagles flew ever to and from his halls; and their eyes could see to the depths of the seas, and pierce the hidden caverns beneath the world."
- Eldy
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Re: Lord of the Rings series!?
Likewise! I'm glad he talked about them not removing the hilt from Galadriel's dagger. I know nothing about metalworking, but that struck me as odd even on a first viewing. It's cool to hear the ways in which the show gets it right, too.
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Re: Lord of the Rings series!?
He was impressed with the ladle that they used to create the Three Rings that he decided to make his own.
ETA: "We are the Lords of the Rings!"
ETA: "We are the Lords of the Rings!"
"Spirits in the shape of hawks and eagles flew ever to and from his halls; and their eyes could see to the depths of the seas, and pierce the hidden caverns beneath the world."