2020 Election: Predictions, Results and Reactions

[N.E. Brigand]

This is what happened today, isn't it?

18 U.S. Code § 2384 - Seditious conspiracy

If two or more persons in any State or Territory, or in any place subject to the jurisdiction of the United States, conspire to overthrow, put down, or to destroy by force the Government of the United States, or to levy war against them, or to oppose by force the authority thereof, or by force to prevent, hinder, or delay the execution of any law of the United States, or by force to seize, take, or possess any property of the United States contrary to the authority thereof, they shall each be fined under this title or imprisoned not more than twenty years, or both.

(June 25, 1948, ch. 645, 62 Stat. 808; July 24, 1956, ch. 678, § 1, 70 Stat. 623; Pub. L. 103–322, title XXXIII, § 330016(1)(N), Sept. 13, 1994, 108 Stat. 2148.)

There will be people charged with sedition for this, right?

[Dave_LF]

Serious question: these guys who get up and spend nearly all of their 5 minutes just rambling--spouting off random historical facts, listing the names of 9/11 victims, whatever--what do they thing they're accomplishing? Does it achieve some strategic objective to kill time?

[N.E. Brigand]

Serious question: these guys who get up and spend nearly all of their 5 minutes just rambling--spouting off random historical facts, listing the names of 9/11 victims, whatever--what do they thing they're accomplishing? Does it achieve some strategic objective to kill time?

It could be that they're hoping to push the completion of the certification into the wee hours for all time zones, so that as few people as possible see Mike Pence confirm that Joe Biden won the election.

That way they can continue to claim for years that Biden never actually won.

Something like this happened a year ago with Trump's impeachment.

[Túrin Turambar]

Or they can post the videos on social media as a shield against primary challengers in 2022. But I agree, it's utterly pointless.

[N.E. Brigand]

"'I never thought leopards would eat MY face', sobs woman who voted for the Let Leopards Eat People's Faces party."

It's the defining joke of our era. To wit:

"I had a long conversation with" Mike Pence, says Sen. James Inhofe of Oklahoma, who reports that Pence complained of Donald Trump, "After all the things I’ve done for him." (source)

[N.E. Brigand]

Or they can post the videos on social media as a shield against primary challengers in 2022. But I agree, it's utterly pointless.

Also Rudy Giuliani urged at least one senator* today to slow the process down because he supposedly will have more evidence tomorrow that Trump not Biden won the election.

*Giuliani meant to call newly-elected Tommy Tuberville of Alabama but dialed the wrong number and left his voicemail on the phone of some other unidentified Senator who told the press.

- - - - - - - - - - -
On a side note, I noticed a number of people online today claiming that the terrorist in the Capitol today wearing a fur hat with horns is a member of Antifa, but actually he's a QAnon supporter who regularly appears at far right events.

Also, he's a Nazi, as are a number of the other terrorists who attacked today.

And those two things are connected:
(1) Nazis.
(2) The party in power blaming a terrorist incident on a minor and innocent fringe organization.

Reichstag fire, anyone?

- - - - - - - - - -
Huh. CNN's Jim Acosta reported this afternoon: "A source close to the White House who is in touch with some of the rioters at the Capitol said it's the goal of those involved to stay inside the Capitol through the night."

That sounds like some sort of coordination between the President and the terrorists that was more than him just exhorting them in a late-morning speech.

Or maybe like Acosta's source was using Acosta to deliver a message to the terrorists.

Which means Acosta may have a moral duty to burn his source.

(My first guess would be Roger Stone. He's close to the Proud Boys.)

[Impenitent]

Lie, prevaricate, distract, delay, deny and then lie bigger. It works for a long time but when the structure finally comes down it crushes everybody.

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[N.E. Brigand]

I stayed up to see this thing done. Pence just announced that Biden and Harris were elected.

[Dave_LF]

Same here. That was probably the most exciting Congressional proceeding I've ever watched, and it was still really dull. Leave it to Congress to make a debate about overthrowing an election immediately after being the victims of a terrorist attack designed to accomplish the same thing boring.

I guess there was almost a fistfight at one point, but they stopped it.

[Frelga]

I guess there was almost a fistfight at one point, but they stopped it.

There was? Between whom?

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[Dave_LF]

Andy Harris and Al Lawson. Harris was mad because he thought Conor Lamb was calling him a liar*. Lawson intervened, then others did too, and someone was ordered out of the chamber, though it was happening off the edge of the camera and I couldn't tell who.

*To be fair, he was. To be extra-fair, Harris had totally just got done telling a pack of lies

[RoseMorninStar]

We watched it too. Gohmert must have been trying to stall for whatever Giuliani has cooked up for tomorrow.

[Túrin Turambar]

Trump has issued a statement calling for a peaceful transition without actually conceding the election. Which is better than some of the things he could have come out with, so I'll give him that. But will his most devoted supporters follow it?

[yovargas]

"Just because she was arguably a terrorist attempting to overthrow the United States government doesn't mean she presented an imminent threat to that officer."

For god's sakes, unless these people were threatening people's lives, which to my knowledge almost none of them were, they were NOT TERRORISTS. I'm so disgusted by this line of thought. What that group did was shocking and frightening, but a mostly unarmed and unorganized mob rushing into a building is mostly just trespassing, with a few cases of vandalism. Trespassing and minor vandalism DO NOT qualify as terrorism, and they most certainly aren't crimes worthy of killing over.

[Sunsilver]

Yov, some weapons were found, but not really a significant number, though I've seen conflicting accounts. The pipe bombs and Molotov cocktails found show some of the protestors had violent intentions:

Contee said police had made at least 52 arrests: four for carrying pistols without licenses, one arrest for possession of a prohibited weapon and 47 arrests for curfew violations and unlawful entry. Twenty-six of the 52 arrests were made on U.S. Capitol grounds, Contee said.

The chief also confirmed that police recovered two pipe bombs at the Democratic National Committee and Republican National Committee offices. A cooler that contained molotov cocktails also was found on U.S. Capitol grounds, the chief said. Bowser said officials will review video and issue lookout alerts for people who breached the U.S. Capitol, adding that they “need to be held accountable for the carnage.”

https://www.washingtonpost.com/dc-md-va ... e-updates/

[Inanna]

And they sprayed tear gas on the officers’ faces at the barricades.

[River]

I saw video of cops getting pepper-sprayed. And they definitely disrupted government function.

[elengil]

I kind of agree with Yov. I don't necessarily think 'terrorist' is the right term to use here, but at the same time we all know damn well exactly what would have happened had that crowd been anything other than "good ol white boys". I suppose it's lucky the pres didn't want to stand in front of the capital building holding up a bible...

The police proved they know how to not use violence against a mob. And they proved they know when not to use it. Which proves they are choosing to do so specifically against the groups in question when they do.

What outrages me is the extreme difference in treatment of two groups - one asking the police to stop brutalizing them, the other desiring to overthrow the election and install their dictator for life.

Whether the mob had any real chance of achieving their goals does not, in fact, negate their intended goal. They were a seditious and dangerous mob. That they did not succeed and that very little blood was shed does not change their attempt.

[RoseMorninStar]

yov & elengil, what would your definition of terrorism be?

[elengil]

yov & elengil, what would your definition of terrorism be?

I couldn't actually answer your question, so I looked up the definition:

Terrorism is the unlawful use of force or violence against persons or property to intimidate or coerce a government or its citizens to further certain political or social objectives. Law enforcement generally recognizes two types of terrorism: domestic and international.

And it seems I have fallen victim to the term being used so narrowly that I wasn't able to expand the meaning in my understanding. I think we have been conditioned to view terrorism through a singular lens, but the desire to overthrow an election and install their will of leader is apparently the textbook definition of terrorism. So yes... terrorism. Even if they weren't shooting people, blowing things up, even if they were largely uncoordinated and (thankfully) incompetent, ...terrorism.