The 2012 US Election

[Voronwë the Faithful]

Lestat strikes again.

[ToshoftheWuffingas]

https://www.facebook.com/DogsAgainstRomney

[ToshoftheWuffingas]

On a more serious note, although Romney's varied positions about abortion are well known, I found this article interesting. If it is to be believed it indicates his liberal stance was something coordinated with his church in order increase his chance of gaining power in a liberal area of the US>

http://www.counterpunch.org/2012/01/06/ ... ounseller/

[Dave_LF]

First Romney says he enjoys firing people, now he claims that pointing out the income gap is envy:
http://money.cnn.com/2012/01/12/news/ec ... ?hpt=hp_t2

That may go over well with the tea faction and help him cement the primary, but that kind of talk will lose him the election if he keeps it up.

[Griffon64]

I saw that quote and was kind of amazed that he let himself say that. That looks like some good fuel for the 1% vs 99% fire - where he's in the 1% that doesn't get it.

Man, this 2012 election is grim.

ETA: I refer to the "envy" part of his quote, not the firing part.

[SirDennis]

that kind of talk will lose him the election if he keeps it up.

One can only hope it would. But I have noticed a baffling propensity for people (of a class or economic strata) to vote against their own interests. For the record, I have yet to hear otherwise, but Mitchell (?) Romney is not the favoured candidate of the Christian Right.

[Túrin Turambar]

First Romney says he enjoys firing people, now he claims that pointing out the income gap is envy:
http://money.cnn.com/2012/01/12/news/ec ... ?hpt=hp_t2

That may go over well with the tea faction and help him cement the primary, but that kind of talk will lose him the election if he keeps it up.

Did he actually say he enjoys firing people, or did he say that he likes to be able to fire people (or, in the specific example he was talking about, his healthcare provider) if they don't perform to required standards?

ETA: ""I want individuals to have their own insurance. That means the insurance company will have an incentive to keep you healthy. It also means if you don’t like what they do, you can fire them. I like being able to fire people who provide services to me. You know, if someone doesn’t give me a good service that I need, I want to say I’m going to go get someone else to provide that service to me."

(From Polifact)

[Frelga]

I agree that it's the second, LM. He is still woefully out of touch. How many Americans here have a choice of changing insurance companies? Show of hands?

I suppose I do have that choice once a year, during "open enrollment," and my employer does provide more than option. In theory. The alternatives either don't have a hospital in my area (Kaiser), don't include my doctor, or cost much much more. So, not much choice.

[SirDennis]

First Romney says he enjoys firing people, now he claims that pointing out the income gap is envy:
http://money.cnn.com/2012/01/12/news/ec ... ?hpt=hp_t2

That may go over well with the tea faction and help him cement the primary, but that kind of talk will lose him the election if he keeps it up.

Did he actually say he enjoys firing people, or did he say that he likes to be able to fire people (or, in the specific example he was talking about, his healthcare provider) if they don't perform to required standards?

Isn't that a bit of a red herring either way? It is not as if there is no choice among doctors inside countries that provide universal health coverage. Nor is it likely that anyone would take away an employer's right to fire their employees.

[rant]How can the freedom to choose among providers, for those who can afford it, be valued above universal access to healthcare in the first place?[/rant]

[yovargas]

How many Americans here have a choice of changing insurance companies?

That quote doesn't say most Americans have that choice. It says it would be good if they did.

[Frelga]

Well, yes, and it would be good to have free hot chocolate every morning. It would be great! It's just not the most pressing problem right now. Right now being able to obtain and afford medical care in the first place is what most Americans have to worry about.

[Dave_LF]

First Romney says he enjoys firing people, now he claims that pointing out the income gap is envy:
http://money.cnn.com/2012/01/12/news/ec ... ?hpt=hp_t2

That may go over well with the tea faction and help him cement the primary, but that kind of talk will lose him the election if he keeps it up.

Did he actually say he enjoys firing people, or did he say that he likes to be able to fire people (or, in the specific example he was talking about, his healthcare provider) if they don't perform to required standards?

He did mean that latter (and I admit I didn't realize that before you pointed it out). But I'm not attacking him right now; just pointing out how his words sound on the campaign trail. With two soundbites in their arsenals, I suspect his opponents will start trying to paint him as an out-of-touch millionaire elitist, whether the soundbites justify that designation in context or not. Indeed, his GOP primary opponents are doing just that.

[Griffon64]

He did mean that latter (and I admit I didn't realize that before you pointed it out). But I'm not attacking him right now; just pointing out how his words sound on the campaign trail. With two soundbites in their arsenals, I suspect his opponents will start trying to paint him as an out-of-touch millionaire elitist, whether the soundbites justify that designation in context or not. Indeed, his GOP primary opponents are doing just that.

Of course. Taking sound bites out of context is a well-honed political tactic, and it will be duly exploited. One of the reasons it works nicely is that people already have their preconceived ideas of a person ( Ugh, he's a Democrat, so he must be X, or Ugh, he's a Republican, so he must be X ) so they'll happily swallow the sound bite as vindication for their beliefs, without bothering to learn about its context, etc.

As far as health care goes, does the current "captive audience" state of medical insurance factor in any way into the problems around being able to obtain and afford medical care, or is medical insurance different in that regard? I ask because it occurs to me that there may be more than one way to solve the problem of obtaining and affording health care, and since I'm interested in working solutions, not ideology, I'm batting around some thoughts around whether going with a universal health care solution would be the only way to solve the problem, or whether there's more than one way to do it. ( And of course, Romney did enact that little bit of health care legislation in Massachusetts, so one should keep that in mind while considering his remarks on health care access. )

[Túrin Turambar]

First Romney says he enjoys firing people, now he claims that pointing out the income gap is envy:
http://money.cnn.com/2012/01/12/news/ec ... ?hpt=hp_t2

That may go over well with the tea faction and help him cement the primary, but that kind of talk will lose him the election if he keeps it up.

Did he actually say he enjoys firing people, or did he say that he likes to be able to fire people (or, in the specific example he was talking about, his healthcare provider) if they don't perform to required standards?

He did mean that latter (and I admit I didn't realize that before you pointed it out). But I'm not attacking him right now; just pointing out how his words sound on the campaign trail. With two soundbites in their arsenals, I suspect his opponents will start trying to paint him as an out-of-touch millionaire elitist, whether the soundbites justify that designation in context or not. Indeed, his GOP primary opponents are doing just that.

Naturally. I suppose I just have an issue with the way that popular memes about candidates saying certain things that they didn't say ("I can see Russia from my house!") tend to catch on and end up as common knowledge. Particularly if they fit percieved negative notions about a candidate (Palin is stupid, Romney is an out-of-touch corporate raider, Obama is a dangerous semi-foriegner who wants to dismantle the things America stands for, etc). Personally, I neither like nor dislike Mitt Romney, but I think some of the attacks levelled against him, by Republicans especially, have been bizarre. For example, Gingrich ran an ad trying to paint him as being as much of a Massachussetts liberal as John Kerry because they both spoke French (Romney spent two years in France as a Mormon missionary in the 1960s).

[Frelga]

Finally, a Republican candidate I might seriously consider.

Colbert preps prez run, transfers PAC to Stewart

A Public Policy Polling survey released Tuesday found that Colbert is polling ahead of former Utah Gov. Jon Huntsman in South Carolina. According to the survey, Colbert has 5 percent of the vote and Huntsman has 4 percent.

Watch the video (if you are not SirD SirD is apparently banned from watching Colbert Report) for a crash course in the absurdity of Super PACs.

[Primula Baggins]

We just watched that episode tonight. Scary as hell, especially if you reflect that the Super PAC is quite real, is full of quite real money, and can be used however Jon Stewart wishes it to be used. Entirely without any coordination with Stephen Colbert, of course.

[nerdanel]

I think it's brilliant, and I thoroughly approve of Stewart and Colbert bridging the gap between basic cable comedy and real life.

Y'all have probably seen the NYT article covering the Colbert phenomenon already, but if not, I recommend it:

http://www.nytimes.com/2012/01/08/magaz ... lbert.html

[Primula Baggins]

Stephen Colbert's—I mean, Jon Stewart's Super PAC is airing this new ad in South Carolina.

[Frelga]

My favorite political comment of the week, on Yahoo of all places, where I usually squeeze my eyes shut to avoid accidentally reading the comments:

We should have a law that political candidates must dress like race car drivers.....they must identify their corporate sponsors on their suits.

[Voronwë the Faithful]

Jon Huntsman is dropping out of the race and endorsing Romney:

Jon Huntsman to exit 2012 race