National Prayer Day unconstituitonal
If it could be shown that having a whole lot of people praying for the same thing at the same time had a tangible effect on reality, then the leader of a country would be totally justified in asking everyone to wish for the same thing at the same time.
Since that has yet to be proven, there's not much point in having a national prayer day.
Since that has yet to be proven, there's not much point in having a national prayer day.
Still problematic for me if he acts that way within his presidential function which is an official function for a secular state.Frelga wrote:Absolutely, Cerin, it is having the law that I feel crosses the line. A believing President asking believing citizens to pray with him, as you say, is a different matter and I don't see it as controversial.
"nolite te bastardes carborundorum".
Not that big of deal, one can can take part or not, but the scary afterthought I have is - Why all of sudden is our national leader wanting us to pray ?
Is getting to the point where there's nothing left to embrace or depend on but hopes and prayers ?
Making the reapings of one small harvest last until the next while praying for rain during a growing season in years growing ever so dry ?
Is getting to the point where there's nothing left to embrace or depend on but hopes and prayers ?
Making the reapings of one small harvest last until the next while praying for rain during a growing season in years growing ever so dry ?
Pomthekie
It's not 'all of a sudden' - Congress decided in 1952 that the president would mark one day each year as the National Day of Prayer. Of course, they all write their own proclamation. I quoted the text of Lincoln's and Obama's in full so you could see the very different tones of one in the midst of a crisis, when the US was engaged in civil war, and one that was more just a 'wouldn't it be nice if people prayed for the country' type of thing. I found Obama's language to be very mild in comparison to Lincoln's, and like in his inaugural address, it acknowledge that people in this country have the freedom not to worship if that is what they choose.
Most of the groups that organize events for the National Day of Prayer are evangelical Christians. So, you would be more likely to be aware of it if you were one . You may observe it (or ignore it) in any way you see fit, but generally prayer consists of praising God, thanking Him for blessings received, confessing sins sorrowfully, and petitioning for more blessings. Any or all of those things could be done with a focus on the country as a whole or our nation's leaders in particular.
But of course we're free to do that any day we like. One church I attended said a 'prayer for our country' before each weekly service, and I think most of the times there is a petition for our nation, the armed forces, and/or our political leaders in the prayer of the faithful at Catholic masses.
But of course we're free to do that any day we like. One church I attended said a 'prayer for our country' before each weekly service, and I think most of the times there is a petition for our nation, the armed forces, and/or our political leaders in the prayer of the faithful at Catholic masses.
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National Prayer Day?
Really? Yes, that's not exactly constitutional! I'm also looking forward to the 'In God We Trust' being kicked to the kerb as well. OK, like National Prayer Day it doesn't mention a specific god, but not everyone believes in them.
And if you know your bible, you are supposed to pray in private, not at some event that no doubt will be organised and many will attend and (want to) be seen at.
Really? Yes, that's not exactly constitutional! I'm also looking forward to the 'In God We Trust' being kicked to the kerb as well. OK, like National Prayer Day it doesn't mention a specific god, but not everyone believes in them.
And if you know your bible, you are supposed to pray in private, not at some event that no doubt will be organised and many will attend and (want to) be seen at.
It's about time.
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That is one of the peculiarities of this country, yes.
Edited for rudeness
Edited for rudeness
Last edited by Primula Baggins on Sat Apr 24, 2010 4:17 pm, edited 1 time in total.
“There, peeping among the cloud-wrack above a dark tor high up in the mountains, Sam saw a white star twinkle for a while. The beauty of it smote his heart, as he looked up out of the forsaken land, and hope returned to him. For like a shaft, clear and cold, the thought pierced him that in the end the Shadow was only a small and passing thing: there was light and high beauty for ever beyond its reach.”
― J.R.R. Tolkien, The Return of the King
― J.R.R. Tolkien, The Return of the King
The Bible mentions both private and corporate prayer, actually.Lidless wrote:And if you know your bible, you are supposed to pray in private, not at some event that no doubt will be organised and many will attend and (want to) be seen at.
But it's certainly against any kind of showing off and 'look at me I'm so holy' attitudes.
As I mentioned before, King George VI organised several National Days of Prayer in the UK during WW2.
The issue here seems to be that it seems very weird for Congress to mandate a President to organise one.
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Letter no. 246, The Collected Letters of J.R.R. Tolkien
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National Day of Prayer has been around for a while...and I always thought it was a bit odd, although I certainly didn't find it offensive. Like Di, I think it is out of place for something such as prayer to be mandated but I have no issue with the President praying and asking people to join him, if they so choose.
I honestly don't see why the idea should make anyone "ROFL".
I am not surprised that this National Day of Prayer started in the 1950s. That was also when they officially added the "under God" to the pledge of allegiance". It was during the Cold War, a very scary time for many people.
I have to say that my all-time favorite Presidential prayer is the one by tMorgan Freeman as President Beck in the movie "Deep Impact" when it appears that the world is going to be smashed to smithereens by the comet.
I honestly don't see why the idea should make anyone "ROFL".
I am not surprised that this National Day of Prayer started in the 1950s. That was also when they officially added the "under God" to the pledge of allegiance". It was during the Cold War, a very scary time for many people.
Not going to happen anytime soon, as it is part of our national heritage...and why on earth would it matter to you?Lidless wrote:I'm also looking forward to the 'In God We Trust' being kicked to the kerb as well.
I have to say that my all-time favorite Presidential prayer is the one by tMorgan Freeman as President Beck in the movie "Deep Impact" when it appears that the world is going to be smashed to smithereens by the comet.
I wish... No. Wishing is wrong. It's the wrong word right now. That's not what I mean. What I mean is...I believe in God. I know a lot of you don't,
but I still want to offer a prayer...for our survival. Mine included. Because I believe that God -,whomever you hold that to be - hears all prayers, even if sometimes the answer is "no."
So, may the Lord bless you.
May the Lord keep you.
May the Lord lift up His divine
countenance upon you...
and give you peace.
"Live! Live! Live! Life is a banquet, and most poor suckers are starving to death!" - Auntie Mame
Well, I am not exactly thrilled with it myself, truth be told. The President's job is to take care of business. Those of us who are religious usually turn to our spiritual guides for spiritual support. However, I am sympathetic to a man (or a woman, one hopes) shouldering a huge burden if he also feels the need to turn to a higher power in a crisis. So long as he is a) sincere rather than currying favor with certain groups, b) is also taking care of business and c) is doing it in the spirit of "God give me strength" and not "God please fix it."Nin wrote:Still problematic for me if he acts that way within his presidential function which is an official function for a secular state.Frelga wrote:Absolutely, Cerin, it is having the law that I feel crosses the line. A believing President asking believing citizens to pray with him, as you say, is a different matter and I don't see it as controversial.
That one branch of secular government directs the head of another branch to call citizens to prayer? I suppose it may seem normal to someone who grew up in the culture of prayer. I will be honest, reading about it was one of the biggest "They what?" moments of my week, and that says something in this office.Jewel wrote:I honestly don't see why the idea should make anyone "ROFL".
If there was anything that depressed him more than his own cynicism, it was that quite often it still wasn't as cynical as real life.
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Apologies for having an opinion about the most powerful nation on earth that happens to impinge on every person on this planet.JewelSong wrote:Not going to happen anytime soon, as it is part of our national heritage...and why on earth would it matter to you?Lidless wrote:I'm also looking forward to the 'In God We Trust' being kicked to the kerb as well.
You and Prim - am I also allowed to have and express an opinion on things I have not experienced and do not completely affect me, such as tsunamis, soccer and hair products?
Yes, it bugs me that 'In God We Trust' is the official national motto, and has been that way for the grand sum of 46 years (some heritage, even if the phrase has been on coins for 140 years).
A national motto based on religious musings. Not, historically, the best of mixes.
It's about time.
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Oh well...you are certainly free to be bugged about it.Yes, it bugs me that 'In God We Trust' is the official national motto,
But I doubt it will change anytime soon. And frankly, I think there are far greater priorities than worrying about what is written on my cash. Even if it bugged me, I wouldn't put an energy into changing it.
I did see a sign in a shop once that said "In God we trust. All others pay cash."
"Live! Live! Live! Life is a banquet, and most poor suckers are starving to death!" - Auntie Mame