Voronwë_the_Faithful wrote:That is a complicated subject.
Yes, this line does come from Tolkien himself (from AAm §45). The version of the origin of the Orcs contained here was actually added in to this part of the Annals to match the new story that Tolkien developed when editing a later section (AAm §127), replacing the old story that the Orcs were created by Melkor out of stone (see MR, 78 and 123). Ironically, however, Tolkien himself eventually deleted the description of the Orcs being Elvish in origin in that later portion of the Annals and it therefore only appears in this portion of the published text, despite Tolkien’s note just two paragraphs earlier indicating that the Orcs were not “Elvish”.
Oh yeah, you weren't kidding about it being a complicated subject! My head hurts just trying to read that above paragraph.
And now with the Professor dead we are free to draw our own conclusions about Orcs, and how to see them in his mythology.
I would give the dear old Professor a slack and don't drill him over all those technicalities. Yes, he painted himself into a corner. Yes, it doesn't make sense for Morgoth to create a brand new race of irredeemable creatures.
But we get (I think) what he was trying to do - create fairy-tale monsters which should be fought by fairy-tale heroes. And those fairy-tale battles reflect on us fighting inner demons, society demons and real people who threaten us, in the real life. So I'd say - yes, we get it, don't worry about those technical details.
ToshoftheWuffingas - I agree Tolkien didn't idealize the "good" races. We had Numenorians coming from over the Sea and enslaving/mistreating M-E natives. We had Fall of Númenor, a failure of the King's line in Gondor and Gondor's decline (and again, abuse of the natives). We had Nazguls who were the Kings of Men, of high races of Men. Etc.
And Aragorn wasn't a saint - it was Frodo who was a saint. Interesting how Tolkien gave Frodo some kills in the orginal drafts but then gradually took them all away in the final version, and I'm so glad he did that!
Aragorn was a ruler of his time who had to do cruel things because it is inevitable when you are in power. As they say - "Render therefore to Cesar the things which are Cesar's, and to God the things which are God's", i.e. a ruler can never operate ideal justice on "this side of the tapestry". The best ruler can only hope to avoid doing cruel things without extreme need, avoid injustice on purpose. And the best ruler would hate the times when he had to be cruel.
Aragorn was such a ruler, I believe. Who viewed it as a burden/responsibility and who showed as much mercy as was still practical. Remember his verdict on Beregond?
So going back to his treatment of Orcs vs. treatment of other "bad" nations. If Orcs are redeemable creatures, they, and at least their babies, should have at least the same treatment as those other Sauron's allies. They weren't, so Tolkien, and our heroes, viewed them as fundamentally different.
ArathornJax wrote:There is also the notion that Morgoth used the bodies of elves and men driving out the fëa or soul and replacing it with a corrupted spirit.
ArathornJax, I found this idea extremely interesting (I remember reading about it a long time ago but then it didn't catch my attention)!
It was the same approach chosen in Buffy/Angelverse (another passion of mine), with the vampires, and it's a very elegant way of solving this moral dilemma. Vampires there have their human souls driven away from their bodies when they die and become vampires, and the evil demon reanimates the body and corrupts the remainder of the human spirit left after departure of the soul. Therefore they are irredeemable, completely evil, and are killed without remorse because the redeemable part of them is already dead/departed.
And those vampires were openly used as metaphores of fighting inner demons, inner badness. But even there it became more complicated morally than that - won't spoil it for uninitiated, but the question about whether even they can be redeemed played a HUGE part in those series.
And as we are left free to choose on how we see Orcs, I'd choose this approach. That fëa which is Eru's was driven from those who would become Orcs, and the bodies were mutilated and reanimated by evil spirits - which are part of M-E mythology as well (Wraiths? Barrow Wights? The Dead subscribed by Aragorn? etc.)
I.e. Orcs might be zombies of dead Men, Elves etc.
As for procreation - yes, Orcs were crossed with Men etc. and I don't doubt they had all the works in place. I just assumed they woudn't procreate with each other, as bringing forth a new life would be *creating*, while Frodo said that the Darkness could only maim and mock, and not create.