The wind was on the withered heath (and other songs)

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Passdagas the Brown
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The wind was on the withered heath (and other songs)

Post by Passdagas the Brown »

Now that film 2 will begin, post-prologue, with a visit to Beorn's house, rather than it being an action sequence in the middle of film 1, PJ will have a chance to slow down a bit here, and create a powerful, atmospheric and re-introductory beginning, before we plunge into the darkness of Mirkwood.

In that context, do you think we'll get the "wind was on the withered heath" song from the dwarves, while in Beorn's house? I really hope so, as the absolute best and most evocative moment in AUJ was of the dwarves singing the Misty Mountains song together, sharing their loss, pain and yearning. And here, as they sit on the edge of the real wild, prepared to plunge into the next stage of the quest, it could prove equally haunting and effective. Here's the text of the song from the book:
The wind was on the withered heath,
But in the forest stirred no leaf:
There shadows lay be night or day,
And dark things silent crept beneath.

The wind came down from mountains cold,
And like a tide it roared and rolled.
The branches groaned, the forest moaned,
And leaves were laid upon the mould.

The wind went on from West to East;
All movement in the forest ceased.
But shrill and harsh across the marsh,
Its whistling voices were released.

The grasses hissed, their tassels bent,
The reeds were rattling--on it went.
O'er shaken pool under heavens cool,
Where racing clouds were torn and rent.

It passed the Lonely Mountain bare,
And swept above the dragon's lair:
There black and dark lay boulders stark,
And flying smoke was in the air.

It left the world and took its flight
Over the wide seas of the night.
The moon set sail upon the gale,
And stars were fanned to leaping light.
Thoughts? Any hints that this will, or will not, happen?
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Voronwë the Faithful
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Post by Voronwë the Faithful »

I would love to say yes, but I doubt it. I hope this is another "good morning" situation, in which I insisted for as long as possible that it wouldn't be in the film, when it not only was, but was almost picture perfect.
"Spirits in the shape of hawks and eagles flew ever to and from his halls; and their eyes could see to the depths of the seas, and pierce the hidden caverns beneath the world."
Passdagas the Brown
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Post by Passdagas the Brown »

Voronwë the Faithful wrote:I would love to say yes, but I doubt it. I hope this is another "good morning" situation, in which I insisted for as long as possible that it wouldn't be in the film, when it not only was, but was almost picture perfect.
I was thinking the exact same thing. I'm always right! At least, half the time. :)

Honestly, I don't see why PJ wouldn't include it. You have all the dwarves together in a house again. You have this wild, scary bear man making ominous hints about a rising evil (which I imagine he will in the film, based on set reports). You have a very evocative setting, with likely a fire and animals, etc. It's a great place for another dwarven song, and it would mirror AUJ, which seems like something PJ would like to do (he seems to enjoy these repetitive echoes across his films).

More likely than not? Or am I setting myself up for disappointment?
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Post by Voronwë the Faithful »

I think you are setting yourself up for disappointment. While everything you say makes sense, my guess is that Jackson would think it was too similar to Misty Mountains Cold to include. Though I say the more songs the merrier. Even if it is only included in the EE, that would be better than nothing.
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Post by Dave_LF »

I'm afraid I agree with Voronwë here. There's a case to be made for it being redundant, and the singing in AUJ was one of the major things critics chose to complain about (though fans almost all loved it, of course).
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Post by Voronwë the Faithful »

Dave_LF wrote:I'm afraid I agree with Voronwë
That's definitely something to be afraid of! :help:
"Spirits in the shape of hawks and eagles flew ever to and from his halls; and their eyes could see to the depths of the seas, and pierce the hidden caverns beneath the world."
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Post by Passdagas the Brown »

I don't think PJ cares about the critics, to be honest. AUJ made boatloads of money, and I think he's resigned to the fact that these films will not compete for director or best picture awards, no matter what he does.

Plus, I always felt that the critics didn't buy the conceit of the film this time - because of silly-looking dwarves and strange frame rates - and so decided to attack the dwarven singing as ridiculous (because they thought the dwarves looked ridiculous, and were not worthy of humanizing). The film was sooo long, and so full of superfluous fluff, that they had to pick on a few things. And singing dwarves was an easy target. My wife, who knows absolutely nothing about Tolkien, also thought it was the best part of the film. But she's a tad artsy.

I do think it is not very likely to be included, but not for the same reasons. The Beorn sequence was originally supposed to be in the first film, and PJ had probably conceived of it as a quick, action and scare-oriented sequence. Plus, he would not have wanted two scenes of somber dwarf-singing in the same film.

But I do hope they did some re-shoots at Beorn's during pick-ups...

Honestly, I watch AUJ for three scenes only. Good morning, Misty Mountains song, and the battle of Azanulbizar. Everything else I can do without. I'd at least like to see the dwarves sing again while marching along the road...
Last edited by Passdagas the Brown on Wed Nov 06, 2013 10:55 pm, edited 2 times in total.
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Post by Frelga »

Voronwë the Faithful wrote:
Dave_LF wrote:I'm afraid I agree with Voronwë
That's definitely something to be afraid of! :help:
In that case, I'm terrified. :D

But maybe Extended Edition?
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Post by Passdagas the Brown »

Disagreeing with Voronwë, on the other hand, is wonderful and not scary at all!
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Post by Voronwë the Faithful »

:agree:
"Spirits in the shape of hawks and eagles flew ever to and from his halls; and their eyes could see to the depths of the seas, and pierce the hidden caverns beneath the world."
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Post by Passdagas the Brown »

Noooooooooo!!!!
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Post by yovargas »

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Post by Passdagas the Brown »

Nooooooo!!!
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Post by Voronwë the Faithful »

I now believe that there is fairly good chance that this (or something similar) will be included. In the commentary when they start Blunt the Knifes, PB and PJ state that they include more of the songs of The Hobbit than they did of LOTR. And when they start Misty Mountain Cold they talk about the dwarves singing in a group and they say that "these songs" were recorded before filming started, making it clear that there are more than one of this type of song. Certainly, The Wind Was on the Withered Heath would be a very good candidate to be one of them.
"Spirits in the shape of hawks and eagles flew ever to and from his halls; and their eyes could see to the depths of the seas, and pierce the hidden caverns beneath the world."
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Post by Passdagas the Brown »

I was right with the good morning dialogue, and I am really hoping to be right about this one. Stay positive, V! :)

Their maintenance of the songs, including the prophetic song of the Laketowners, is one element that suggests PB and J understand TH on a greater level than LOTR. Or, they just have more screen time to work with. Either way, I applaud them for it.

My cautious guess? We'll at least get this in the EE.
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Post by Passdagas the Brown »

Since the Misty Mountains song in AUJ was on the soundtrack, and there doesn't seem to be a track dedicated to some of the remaining stanzas in the DoS soundtrack (as far as we can tell, having heard only 30 seconds of each track so far) is it safe to say that we probably won't be getting another solemn song from the dwarves?
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Post by Voronwë the Faithful »

Sadly, I was right that this excellent song was not included in DoS (unless it shows up in the EE, which I doubt). But I am going to go out on a limb and say that I expect that the flimmakers will reprise the Misty Mountain theme in BoFA, with the dwarves singing the song under the mountain that "was much like the song they had sung long before in Bilbo's little hobbit-hole":

Under the Mountain dark and tall
The King has come unto his hall!
His foe is dead, the Worm of Dread,
And ever so his foes shall fall.

The sword is sharp, the spear is long,
The arrow swift, the Gate is strong;
The heart is bold that looks on gold;
The dwarves no more shall suffer wrong.

The dwarves of yore made mighty spells,
While hammers fell like ringing bells
In places deep, where dark things sleep,
In hollow halls beneath the fells.

On silver necklaces they strung
The light of stars, on crowns they hung
The dragon-fire, from twisted wire
The melody of harps they wrung.

The mountain throne once more is freed!
O! wandering folk, the summons heed!
Come haste! Come haste! across the waste!
The king of friend and kin has need.

Now call we over mountains cold,
'Come hack unto the caverns old'!
Here at the Gates the king awaits,
His hands are rich with gems and gold.

The king is come unto his hall
Under the Mountain dark and tall.
The Worm of Dread is slain and dead,
And ever so our foes shall fall!
"Spirits in the shape of hawks and eagles flew ever to and from his halls; and their eyes could see to the depths of the seas, and pierce the hidden caverns beneath the world."
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Post by Elentári »

Where I could imagine Withered Heath being included is if we were going to get the night at Beorn's where Gandalf tells Bilbo to stay inside whilst Beorn goes to check out their story and meet with the other bears...I can imagine the Dwarves singing whilst Bilbo tries to sleep and hears all the scrapping and snuffling outside!

However, since PJ is not giving us that, afawk, and instead we may be getting Beorn's torture scene in DG, as well as Gandalf's introductions, I can't see the song working with either of those, unless we get more between the Dwarves closing the doors on bear-Beorn and Bilbo waking the next morning.

I think it is more likely we will get a song at Lake-town, perhaps during the Welcome feast.

Other than that, I think our best chance of getting more songs is with Howard Shore including them as background vocals within the soundtrack, like he did with many of Tolkien's verses for LotR
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Post by Smaug's voice »

Y'know, the editing at Beorn's house is really odd. So there MIGHT still be a song at Beorn's house. What we see, the company reach Beorn's house at dusk CUT everyone is asleep. I won't put hope but assuming there could still be a song in there is not off the mark.

Puh lease, no more food throwing at Laketown. As far as The Hobbit goes, a party + dwarves = food-fight! :roll:

And I agree, having a song in BOFA when the dwavres are inside Erebor will be very good. They won't use that long a song of course.
Probably this much:

Under the Mountain dark and tall
The King has come unto his hall!
His foe is dead, the Worm of Dread,
And ever so his foes shall fall.

The mountain throne once more is freed!
O! wandering folk, the summons heed!
Come haste! Come haste! across the waste!
The king of friend and kin has need.

Now call we over mountains cold,
'Come hack unto the caverns old'!
Here at the Gates the king awaits,
His hands are rich with gems and gold.

The king is come unto his hall
Under the Mountain dark and tall.
The Worm of Dread is slain and dead,
And ever so our foes shall fall!
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Post by Voronwë the Faithful »

Actually, on further thought, I have changed my mind. I don't think they will include it after all, for two reasons. First, Thorin was so prevalent in the singing of Misty Mountains Cold, and it is hard to imagine him singling about his own return as king (in the book it is the other dwarves that sing the song, pleasing Thorin, but further depressing Bilbo). Second, the tone of Misty Mountain Cold in the film is so mournful, and a reprise of that would not work with this song. However, the theme itself is uplifting, so maybe they would be able to find a way to make it work.

What say you?
"Spirits in the shape of hawks and eagles flew ever to and from his halls; and their eyes could see to the depths of the seas, and pierce the hidden caverns beneath the world."
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