Can These Bones Live?

[Sunsilver]

Just sayin'....the first time I heard the term 'Oreo' used was on "All in the Family." Lionel, a young Black man, was explaining to Archie about a mutual acquiantance:

"You see, Mr. Bunker, he's what we call an 'Oreo cookie', black on the outside, and white on the inside."

[Archie, totally missing Lionel's meaning:] "Thanks for explaining that, Lionel. I thought he was a good guy, too!"

I have no doubt Norman Lear had a hard time getting that one by the studio's censors.

[vison]

It annoys me no end that the kids use the word "gay" like that.

"You can't watch TV before you do your homework," I say.

"That's so gay," the answer is.

Yes, they know that "gay" also means "homosexual" and they know what homosexual means, but when they say doing homework is "gay" they are using it in a different way.

It will pass.

When I was a kid in about grade 9 or so, the word "horny" had a brief alternate life as meaning "cool, or good". As in, "That's the horniest car!" So I used it for awhile and my dad squirmed and finally said, "You know, I wish you wouldn't say that".

I had no clue whatsoever, none, of the word's other meaning. Some of my chums may have, I don't know. But, thankfully for my dad's nerves, the usage passed pretty quick.

[yovargas]

A couple weeks ago, I was at a kid's b-day party. A song came on the radio - Justin Timberlake's "SexyBack" (which I happen to love) - and this 10 yr old boy next to me goes "This song is so gay". I was very very tempted to say something, specifically thinking of what's been said in this thread, but found the situation too awkward and inappropriate. The kid wouldn't have listened, I'm sure.

It's only a mild annoyance to me when an adult says that, but with a little kid, it's really frustrating.

[Griffon64]

Kids will do that kind of thing, yov. It is part of finding their identities, of trying to be rebellious and cool and better than the "old folks". It is about getting a reaction. When you've developed a sense of being you and you are still being treated like a kid ( because you are, but besides the point ) getting a reaction is a victory.

I wish they won't do it either, especially because they don't understand the impact their words may have on others and their feelings, but that seems to be the way the human race is put together. It is so very hard to have a perspective on something from anything other than a own and very selfish one. There's not even the consolation that the passing years may shake loose that perspective and temper it. I've encountered both amazingly open-minded, moderate-perspective'd little kids and amazingly narrow-minded, "mememe" people with many a decade on them.

[axordil]

griff--

Indeed. Empathy is an acquired skill, and one some never master. IF we did, how different life would be...

[Maria]

I've fought against my kids with inappropriate use of the word "gay" for years, now, without actually putting my foot down: "How was the movie?" "It was gay." "Really? It didn't seem to be about homosexuality from the trailers we saw..." "Oh, MOM!"

It's no use. They know what it means. They know I don't like to hear it mis-used. They do it anyway. If this is the worst they rebel, I'm lucky, I guess.

edit: and I never knew "oreo" had any other meaning than cookie before today, reading this thread.

[nerdanel]

When I hear that word used in that way, the first thing that I remember is that I learned to use it pejoratively for years before I knew what it meant - and then again, for years after I did know what it meant. So, I know firsthand that this use of the word is meanspirited, wrong, and often deliberately used to hurt people. More importantly, whether or not the speaker intends to hurt people deliberately, this sort of "joke," "insult," or "expression" hurts many gay listeners, and reinforces in everyone's mind subconsciously the idea that gay is bad or insulting. I also know that most people above a certain age (say, 15) can be trained not to use this word, just as with any bigoted, pejorative slur.

My sister was the first person in our family to announce that she saw nothing wrong with homosexuality and supported equal rights in every way for her gay friends. However, she nonetheless persisted in her use of the word "gay" as pejorative for some years, apparently seeing no contradiction in her behavior. Finally, I decided to call her on it, repeatedly and regularly. Every last time she said "That's so gay," I would stop the conversation and force her to find a different word. (Guess what she came up with? "That's so stupid." "That's so dumb." "That's so ridiculous." "That's so crappy." Etc. When asked whether she was okay with calling her gay friends "stupid," "dumb," "ridiculous," or "crappy," she began to understand the contradiction.) Within a couple of months, the usage disappeared from her vocabulary.

I will call people on this usage (as well as a related issue I've noticed, in which the speaker will say "normal people" to refer to "straight people"), almost without regard to the setting. I've done it at school, at Big Brothers Big Sisters, at social events, at my sister's school (when she was in high school), and at work. There are situations in which it doesn't have any impact. However, I have learned that there are many people who actually will go home and think about what you are telling them. I've noticed this pejorative silently drop out of people's speech, as it did with my sister's...and mine, before that. So I think these conversations are worth the effort.

[yovargas]

How do you approach that conversation? It seems difficult to me to strike the right tone to get someone to listen to you to that kind of thing.