Episode 5 (Spoilers, including discussion of the preview)

For discussion of Amazon's new television show "The Lord of the Rings: The Rings of Power"
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Eldy
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Re: Episode 5 (Spoilers, including discussion of the preview)

Post by Eldy »

Frelga wrote: Mon Sep 26, 2022 4:44 pmI would like to think that Gil-Galad is manipulating Elrond again, and that he needs mithril for some different purpose. He just has an untrustworthy face.
I think that would be the only thing that can salvage this subplot for me. I don't particularly like manipulative!Gil-galad, but that seems to be the direction the show is going, so ... so be it. Elrond wouldn't come out of this looking great for having fallen for this deception, especially five minutes after learning Gil-galad had already manipulated him, but it'd be better than Gil-galad and Celebrimbor believing what they're saying.
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Re: Episode 5 (Spoilers, including discussion of the preview)

Post by Voronwë the Faithful »

One way or the other, it's definitely a different story than the one that Tolkien wrote!
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Re: Episode 5 (Spoilers, including discussion of the preview)

Post by Alatar »

You know, it occurs to me that even though "Silmarils in Mithril can restore the Life of the Eldar" (Or SMiLE as I'm now dubbing it) is a crazy invention, it still make more sense than "Arwens Life Is tied to the Fate of the Ring" :)
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Re: Episode 5 (Spoilers, including discussion of the preview)

Post by Eldy »

If only Elrond had thought to try mithril therapy on her!
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Re: Episode 5 (Spoilers, including discussion of the preview)

Post by Voronwë the Faithful »

SMiLE is brilliant!
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Re: Episode 5 (Spoilers, including discussion of the preview)

Post by Inanna »

Alatar wrote:You know, it occurs to me that even though "Silmarils in Mithril can restore the Life of the Eldar" (Or SMiLE as I'm now dubbing it) is a crazy invention, it still make more sense than "Arwens Life Is tied to the Fate of the Ring" :)
Wasn’t it Fate of Middle-Earth? Or was it fate of the ring?

So, now with these new story lines it got me thinking of folks who haven’t read the books. If someone sees RoP, and then sees LOTR - they might wonder as Eldy did. And the answer could be that “the dwarves dwelled too deep” for mirthril, awakened the Balrog, and so SMiLE stopped being a viable solution. :blackeye:
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Re: Episode 5 (Spoilers, including discussion of the preview)

Post by Heliona »

Well, we watched it late as my friend was visiting at the weekend and hadn't seen any of the episodes yet.

I mean, the utter nonsense with the mithril/Silmaril needing to save the Elves - everyone has said everything I think about it.

Three ships taking maybe 90 people and about 30 horses (I'm being generous) taking quite a while to get to Middle-earth. I can usually gloss over some logistics, but that really was pushing it.

I liked the Durin/Elrond interactions still. And for once the Harfoots weren't the most annoying thing about the episode.

I like Halbrand and if he turns out to be Sauron, I'll be annoyed, because it doesn't really make sense. However, I now have little faith in the writers. Not much really happened in this episode, so for me there wasn't a great deal to like. I did like the map showing the Harfoots moving at the beginning, with the song sung over it. Didn't really feel like a walking song, though. (And both Wilko and I thought she sung "not all those who wander or wander are lost" which made no sense! (Turns out it's "who wonder or wander are lost" which doesn't make much sense to me either.) Although the path that the Harfoots followed didn't make sense to me - they seemed to travel south and then east, going through quite frankly some places you shouldn't be dragging a cart through. Which as a migratory species, you'd think they'd know a better route!

It's pretty as always, so it's got that going for it.
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Re: Episode 5 (Spoilers, including discussion of the preview)

Post by elengil »

Alatar wrote: Thu Sep 29, 2022 10:00 am You know, it occurs to me that even though "Silmarils in Mithril can restore the Life of the Eldar" (Or SMiLE as I'm now dubbing it) is a crazy invention, it still make more sense than "Arwens Life Is tied to the Fate of the Ring" :)
Guh, I hated that line :nono: :x
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Re: Episode 5 (Spoilers, including discussion of the preview)

Post by Frelga »

Me too, and even more so because PJ didn't have to invent these things. He had a complete text at his disposal.
Inanna wrote: Fri Sep 30, 2022 1:03 am So, now with these new story lines it got me thinking of folks who haven’t read the books. If someone sees RoP, and then sees LOTR - they might wonder as Eldy did. And the answer could be that “the dwarves dwelled too deep” for mirthril, awakened the Balrog, and so SMiLE stopped being a viable solution. :blackeye:
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Re: Episode 5 (Spoilers, including discussion of the preview)

Post by Smaug's voice »

To be fair the Arwen's-fate nonsense was as randomly inserted as it was forgotten so it never became a big deal.

I hope it's eventually the same for SMiLe too :/
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Re: Episode 5 (Spoilers, including discussion of the preview)

Post by Alatar »

Yes. I have to say though, they have made me think about things that I previously hand waved away. When the three lost their power after the one was destroyed, their works faded. So it (kinda) makes sense that the Rings are created to stop that fading from happening. Ok, maybe a blight is a bit extreme, but its not a million miles from Canon. I just never really thought of it that way.
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Re: Episode 5 (Spoilers, including discussion of the preview)

Post by Eldy »

In different circumstances, I would have been happy to see ROP tackle the theme of Elvish fading, perhaps exploring what it means in more detail than the Jackson films, where the casual viewer is left with the impression that the Elves are leaving because that's just what Elves do in fantasy settings. Tolkien talked about the intended purpose of the Three Rings being to preserve Middle-earth unchanging, and I have a headcanon that Celebrimbor became fixated on that when he created a second Elessar that was "more subtle and clear [than the original] yet its light had less power. For whereas that of Enerdhil was lit by the Sun in its youth, already many years had passed ere Celebrimbor began his work, and nowhere in Middle-earth was the light as clear as it had been" (UT, Galadriel and Celeborn). Of course, this is all very tied up in religious concepts as well as notions of Elvish craft and the proper role of subcreation, and I can't necessarily blame the showrunners for thinking that general audiences would be uninterested. But reducing it to "we'll all be as good as dead in less than a year" is just ... boringly ham-handed to me. :neutral:
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Re: Episode 5 (Spoilers, including discussion of the preview)

Post by Dave_LF »

Eldy wrote: Mon Oct 03, 2022 7:36 pmBut reducing it to "we'll all be as good as dead in less than a year" is just ... boringly ham-handed to me. :neutral:
Particularly since a year is nothing in the life of an elf; it's barely even inside their reaction time! :D It reminds me of that old joke: Doctor: "I'm sorry, but there's nothing we can do :( I'm afraid you only have 10 to live." Patient: " :shock: :shock: 10 what?? Years? Months? C'mon; give it to me straight doc!" Doctor: "9... 8... 7..."
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