Episode 3 (Spoilers)

Post by **Stranger Wings** » Sun Sep 11, 2022 10:52 pm

kzer_za wrote: ↑Sun Sep 11, 2022 10:41 pm “Leaving behind” doesn’t only mean leaving them in the camp, it also means abandoning them if they fall behind on trail. Nobody besides Poppy (clearly a special exception from close family friendship) offers any help and they don’t ask for help because they know they won’t get it. Largo’s wife clearly knows that if they fall behind the caravan they’ll be abandoned, and Largo’s only solution is “we’ll stay near the front” (though he seems afraid and putting on a brave face for his wife). And they are indeed very nearly left behind before the Stranger shows up - Poppy seems to be struggling with whether she should risk being abandoned too by helping them.

In this context, Sadoc putting them in the back comes off as a cruel exercise in “survival of the fittest.” More so if he knows about Largo’s injury, which my memory is hazy on but from your description it sounds like he does. Why not just give the family extra chores or something?

Because it's not just Hobbiton with a thin, nomadic veneer. It's a tribe with very different traditions and a very different approach to life and death. I like that about it. Makes this feel like more than just the cutesy fanservice part of the show. And I imagine that as the show progresses, their morality will shift.

Post by **Stranger Wings** » Mon Sep 12, 2022 1:53 am

Sadoc Burrows: "Miss Brandyfoot is young. With as much hair still to grow on her toes as sense between her ears."

Come on! These are great lines.

Post by **Dave_LF** » Mon Sep 12, 2022 2:13 am

I noticed and appreciated all the little aphorisms too. They feel authentic—more than once I found myself wondering whether the thing I’d just heard was an actual folksy saying from the UK that I’d simply never heard before (not with the hairy toes one, though).

If Halbrand does have a ring in his future, they could be deliberately setting up a contrast with Aragorn (“how great and terrible a lord he might have become” etc.)

Did anyone catch why no one seemed to mind that Galadriel went trotting off to the library after they confined her to the palace grounds?

Post by **narya** » Mon Sep 12, 2022 2:39 am

Dave_LF wrote: ↑Mon Sep 12, 2022 2:13 am
Did anyone catch why no one seemed to mind that Galadriel went trotting off to the library after they confined her to the palace grounds?

And no one minded that she stole reference materials from the library. I don't think she just checked them out for 3 weeks.

Post by **Eldy** » Mon Sep 12, 2022 7:27 am

I enjoyed most of Sadoc's sayings, I'll give the show props for that.

Post by **Stranger Wings** » Mon Sep 12, 2022 9:56 am

narya wrote:
Dave_LF wrote: ↑Mon Sep 12, 2022 2:13 am
Did anyone catch why no one seemed to mind that Galadriel went trotting off to the library after they confined her to the palace grounds?
And no one minded that she stole reference materials from the library. I don't think she just checked them out for 3 weeks.

That’s because the situation changed between then and the court scene. In between, Míriel tasks Elendil with watching over Galadriel. And so it seems it’s his prerogative, at that point, to decide how to do so. And he decides riding off to the Hall of Lore with her is within his mandate!

I think this may not have been clear because after Míriel says to him “then you must provide me a service,” it cuts away. But later Elendil tells Galadriel (and his children) that his service is to be Galadriel’s minder.

As for the library stuff, I just assume Elendil was able to get permission to temporarily take that material out. He is a descendant of Elros, after all!

Inviato dal mio iPhone utilizzando Tapatalk

Post by **Alatar** » Mon Sep 12, 2022 10:07 am

Honestly the only thing I really disliked in this episode was "THe sea is always right". Stoopfid.

Post by **Inanna** » Mon Sep 12, 2022 12:08 pm

Really? I thought the way they merged it with Elendil rescuing Galadriel was really cool.

Post by **Stranger Wings** » Mon Sep 12, 2022 12:23 pm

Alatar wrote:Honestly the only thing I really disliked in this episode was "THe sea is always right". Stoopfid.

I liked that a lot. Simple, sea cadet mantra. Very similar to coastal mantras along the Mediterranean coast where I live. A mark of respect for the sea (and an acknowledgment that you cannot argue with it). Indeed, fishermen in a nearby town here have a saying “con il mare, non si litiga.” One does not argue with the sea. The sea is always right, essentially. So no. Not stupid to me. Realistic, simple world-building that’s rooted in actual maritime traditions.

Inviato dal mio iPhone utilizzando Tapatalk

Post by **Stranger Wings** » Mon Sep 12, 2022 12:23 pm

Inanna wrote:Really? I thought the way they merged it with Elendil rescuing Galadriel was really cool.

That was a great little payoff.

Inviato dal mio iPhone utilizzando Tapatalk

Post by **Alatar** » Mon Sep 12, 2022 1:13 pm

I live on an Island. We are familiar with the sea and maritime traditions. My family were coastal fishermen. They feared and respected the sea. The sea is capricious, dangerous. It is most assuredly not "always right". Nobody who works on the sea would say that. "One does not argue with the sea" is much more accurate. The sea is not always right, but it cannot be argued with. Much more sensible.

Honestly, the only reason that line was shoehorned in was so Elendil could use it as an excuse for his actions later on. It was pretty hamfisted in my opinion. YMMV.

Post by **Stranger Wings** » Mon Sep 12, 2022 1:24 pm

Alatar wrote:I live on an Island. We are familiar with the sea and maritime traditions. My family were coastal fishermen. They feared and respected the sea. The sea is capricious, dangerous. It is most assuredly not "always right". Nobody who works on the sea would say that. "One does not argue with the sea" is much more accurate. The sea is not always right, but it cannot be argued with. Much more sensible.

Honestly, the only reason that line was shoehorned in was so Elendil could use it as an excuse for his actions later on. It was pretty hamfisted in my opinion. YMMV.

Perhaps nobody who works on the sea where you’re from would say that, sure.

But that’s not the case here. I derive from a coastal maritime tradition, just…further south than you. Here, the logical extension of “one does not argue with the sea” is “the sea is always right.” And fishermen here tend to use a spouse analogy to be funny about it. “Don’t argue with your wife. She is always right. Like the sea.” The meaning of the two phrases is essentially synonymous.

Perhaps “We do not argue with the sea” might have worked better. But the simplicity of what they went with works in my view. And doesn’t strike me as inauthentic due to my own experience with similar sayings.

Inviato dal mio iPhone utilizzando Tapatalk

Post by **Alatar** » Mon Sep 12, 2022 1:46 pm

We'll agree to differ

Mon Sep 12, 2022 2:58 pm

Stranger Wings wrote: ↑Mon Sep 12, 2022 9:56 amHe is a descendant of Elros, after all!

That remains to be seen. Certainly they have not made it clear that he is a descendent of Elros yet, though arguably they have set it up with the (lovely) seen between him and Galadriel where he asks with awe whether she knew Elros.

Post by **Inanna** » Mon Sep 12, 2022 3:09 pm

Voronwë the Faithful wrote: ↑Mon Sep 12, 2022 2:58 pm
Stranger Wings wrote: ↑Mon Sep 12, 2022 9:56 amHe is a descendant of Elros, after all!
That remains to be seen. Certainly they have not made it clear that he is a descendent of Elros yet, though arguably they have set it up with the (lovely) seen between him and Galadriel where he asks with awe whether she knew Elros.

But I thought they did make it clear in that scene.

Post by **Maria** » Mon Sep 12, 2022 3:13 pm

I'm not enjoying this much so far. The various storylines they've started are not particularly compelling yet. Maybe it'll get better?

Har-hobbit camouflaged wagons: It won't do much good. Dragging multiple wagons across unpaved grassy fields will leave marks that can be read for months afterwards. Anyone who crosses their very obvious trail can follow it to wherever they are hiding next, if they want to.

And... if the sea is always right or you can't argue with it, why would anyone ever develop sails, rudders or oars? Go where the sea takes you!

Mon Sep 12, 2022 6:32 pm

Inanna wrote: ↑Mon Sep 12, 2022 3:09 pm
Voronwë the Faithful wrote: ↑Mon Sep 12, 2022 2:58 pm
Stranger Wings wrote: ↑Mon Sep 12, 2022 9:56 amHe is a descendant of Elros, after all!
That remains to be seen. Certainly they have not made it clear that he is a descendent of Elros yet, though arguably they have set it up with the (lovely) seen between him and Galadriel where he asks with awe whether she knew Elros.
But I thought they did make it clear in that scene.

It certainly is possible that I missed something as I only watched it once, but so far as i could tell they did not.

Tue Sep 13, 2022 2:01 am

One thing that I was wondering about is the discussion between Míriel and her father in which Míriel says to him (if I am remembering correctly) that the Elf that he predicted would arrive has done so, implying that Galadriel's arrival was the sign of a pivotal event, probably a bad one. Tar-Palantir is not identified by name, but of course as his name implies he was far-seeing. We know from the trailers that Míriel and Galadriel will look into a palantír together. I wonder if they are going to someone conflate Tar-Palantir with the palantír?

Post by **Eldy** » Tue Sep 13, 2022 2:11 am

I suppose that's possible, but I hope it's just that Tar-Palantir made a prophecy (as he did in the Akallabêth in different circumstances).

I'm curious to see what, if any, backstory ROP gives the palantíri. There's (arguably) contradictory evidence in the books as to when the Faithful received them—OTROP says they were a gift to Amandil "for the comfort of the Faithful of Númenor in their dark days, when the Elves might come no longer to that land under the shadow of Sauron," but the Akallabêth says the Eldar of Eressëa stopped visiting during the reign of Ar-Gimilzôr, at which point you would expect the palantíri to be a gift to Amandil's father, Númendil, or even his grandfather. (It's possible to resolve this contradiction if you assume the Stones came from Lindon rather than Eressëa, but I don't think the did.) Given the differences we're already aware of, I'm reluctant to rely on book-based speculation here, but I'm looking forward to learning more. Perhaps their presence is a sign that the Faithful have remained in secret communication with the Eldar, as they did in the book.

Post by **kzer_za** » Tue Sep 13, 2022 2:31 am

Voronwë the Faithful wrote: ↑Tue Sep 13, 2022 2:01 am One thing that I was wondering about is the discussion between Míriel and her father in which Míriel says to him (if I am remembering correctly) that the Elf that he predicted would arrive has done so, implying that Galadriel's arrival was the sign of a pivotal event, probably a bad one. Tar-Palantir is not identified by name, but of course as his name implies he was far-seeing. We know from the trailers that Míriel and Galadriel will look into a palantír together. I wonder if they are going to someone conflate Tar-Palantir with the palantír?

Oh man I wish you hadn't said that, because now I'm dreading it'll actually happen.

If we get Tar-Palantir trapped inside a palantír that might be my breaking point for the show haha. Somewhat better would be if he's exiled somewhere distant and they use the palantír to communicate.

Númenórean politics are odd so far but I'm willing to wait and see how they develop. As I said, I'm at least happy they're not just making everything bad all Pharazon's fault.

The Hall of Fire