Trump Charged With 37 counts of Espionage, Obstruction and related crimes

[Voronwë the Faithful]

I just finished reading the brief. It is devastating. It doesn't even matter who is on the panel. No appellate judge is going side with Trump and Cannon..

The renowned (but very liberal) Harvard professor Laurence Tribe appears to agree with me.

[N.E. Brigand]

In contrast to the crimes which Donald Trump is apparently under investigation, it was perfectly legal for Trump, as president, to share classified information with a reporter:



Edited to add: However, Trump apparently also says in these recordings that he knows the letters from Kim Jong-un are classified. So if he did take them to Mar-a-Lago, the recording could help prove he knew he was breaking the law.

[Voronwë the Faithful]

I think it is a good bet that those letters are either: 10 among the documents that were provided to NARA in January 2022; 2) among the documents produced by Trump in response to the grand jury subpoena in June 2022; 3) among the documents retrieved by the FBI in the 8/8/22 search of Mar-a-Lago pursuant to a lawfully issued warrant upon a finding by a magistrate judge that there was probable cause of evidence of crimes at that location; or 4) among the documents that are still missing and either are hidden at Mar-a-Lago or at some other location.

Of course, it is theoretically possible that Trump could have declassified the letters after he showed them to Woodward and stated that they were classified (though actually I think he said something like "those are so top secret" not "classified"), but while he still president. However, as has been repeatedly noted, including by the panel of the 11th Circuit that granted the stay motion, the question of whether the documents with classification markings were ever declassified by Trump is largely legally irrelevant, because they still are evidence of Trump retaining government property, evidence of his obstructing the investigation, and evidence of his unlawfully possessing (and perhaps disseminating) national defense information. Declassifying material in the way that Trump claims to have done so would certainly not render the material no longer "national defense information" and that the term that the Espionage Act uses, not classified.

[Voronwë the Faithful]

Of course it is possible that Patel just pleaded the Fifth over and over for several hours. No word on whether he produced any documents.

[N.E. Brigand]

The Washington Post reports that the classified documents Trump brought to Mar-a-Lago included highly sensitive information about "Iran's missile program" and "intelligence work aimed at China."

1. Why did Trump take this material with him? What did he plan to do with it?

2. Wasn't there a story about someone with Chinese connections sneaking into Mar-a-Lago on some sort of apparent reconnaissance operation?

3. Where is this information coming from? Since this follows on the news of Kash Patel's testimony, one possibility is that Patel was asked about these documents, and he's now leaking to the press. (The government and the grand jury members are prohibited from sharing details of the proceedings, but witnesses are not.) But why would he do that, i.e., how would it help him?

[Voronwë the Faithful]

Meanwhile, yesterday the DoJ timely submitted their summary of the disputes between the parties about the material that was reviewed by the privilege team (and utterly eviscerated Trump's position). Then Trump's lawyer Jim Trusty submitted a letter complaining that the DoJ has misrepresented Trump's position and stating that they would provide their position by Monday, even though yesterday was the deadline. Judge Dearie just responded: "The Special Master notes Plaintiff's counsel's letter of October 20, 2022 151 . To the extent Plaintiff asserts that the government's letter of the same date 150 "is not fully accurate as to the Plaintiff's position on various documents," any submission by Plaintiff to the contrary is now untimely pursuant to my Order of October 7, 2022 138 , which required the parties to submit their final log of positions regarding certain Filter Materials by October 20, 2022. Plaintiff may submit his position no later than the close of business today, October 21, 2022. Signed by Special Master Raymond J. Dearie on 10/21/2022."

[Voronwë the Faithful]

The Washington Post reports that the classified documents Trump brought to Mar-a-Lago included highly sensitive information about "Iran's missile program" and "intelligence work aimed at China."

Did you happen to note whose byline is on that article. (Hint, his initials are DB.)

[N.E. Brigand]

The Washington Post reports that the classified documents Trump brought to Mar-a-Lago included highly sensitive information about "Iran's missile program" and "intelligence work aimed at China."

Did you happen to note whose byline is on that article. (Hint, his initials are DB.)

Not until after I had posted, so I thought I'd wait for someone else to point that out. (I didn't learn it from a MW post; she surely would have mentioned it.) So my comments questioning the motivation for this information being shared now arose from a general suspicion and not one about that reporter specifically.

[Voronwë the Faithful]

I think your suspicion that Kash Patel is the source of the link is decent bet.

Of course, my least favorite representative of my alma mater is always willing to jump to a different conclusion.

[N.E. Brigand]

"Want to know something? Everything is mine."

Posting here because it seems germane to this thread even if it's not specifically about the subject.

- - - - - - - - - - - - -
Some actual news for this thread:

"Prosecutors Pressure Trump Aides to Testify in Documents Case (New York Times)

Per the reporter: "The squeeze is on ... the Department of Justice believes a low level aide initially misled them about moving boxes and now is using specter of criminal charges to force aide to cooperate ... Kash Patel took the Fifth before grand jury ... the Department of Justice now is trying to have judge compel his testimony."

[Sunsilver]

"Want to know something? Everything is mine."

Posting here because it seems germane to this thread even if it's not specifically about the subject.

Yes, most definitely a narcissist. I couldn't believe he'd let Woodward interview him, and I'm not the only one surprised by that! Woodward must have found a way to stroke his ego.

[Voronwë the Faithful]

I'm still annoyed with Marcy Wheeler, but this is worth reading.

KASH PATEL’S IMMUNIZED TESTIMONY IS ABOUT PREMEDITATION, NOT (JUST) ABOUT DECLASSIFICATION

[RoseMorninStar]

I don't understand why there is still so much focus on declassification (other than that is what Trump wants the focus to be on) rather than theft of government property. The property/documents do not belong to Trump.

*edited to correct typo

[Voronwë the Faithful]

True, but the classification status of the documents still is a factor in the extent to which Trump (and others) may have violated the law.

Meanwhile, this is quite interesting. The court in question is in D.C., not Florida.

Trump lawyers and DOJ are in a sealed court hearing related to Mar-a-Lago investigation Thursday

[Voronwë the Faithful]

This is the surest sign yet that they are moving towards an indictment.



ETA: Here is a non-paywall version of the Post story: https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/politics ... r-AA13uqDd

[N.E. Brigand]

The Wall Street Journal is reporting that Kash Patel has been granted limited use immunity to testify to a grand jury about this matter.

[Voronwë the Faithful]

[Voronwë the Faithful]

[Voronwë the Faithful]

[N.E. Brigand]

The Washington Post has a story today saying that "investigators see ego, not money, as Trump's motive" for taking government documents to Mar-a-Lago. I suspect that the story comes from people who are being asked questions about Trump's motives rather than from the Dept. of Justice itself. Also, if I steal a Van Gogh, do I get a lighter sentence if I did so because I wanted to hang it on the wall of my living room instead of wanting to sell it to someone else?

Meanwhile, Donald Trump's lawyers argued in a new filing that the moment Trump, while still President, directed that documents be packed up for shipment to Mar-a-Lago, he thereby changed their status from presidential documents to personal documents.