Voronwë the Faithful wrote: ↑Mon Sep 12, 2022 12:49 am
Is anyone else worried about what irrational things Putin might do in response to Ukraine's apparent gains?
I've thought about this. I read recently that many Russians believe what they have been told: That they (Russia) is 'saving' Ukrainians from the 'Nazi's' (which has an entirely different connotation than what it does to most Americans). Russians have been told that they are 'saving' Russian speaking Ukrainians from the torture imposed by Ukraine (yadda, yadda). They cannot believe they are the bad guys, and when I say 'cannot' I mean, it's illegal to express anything other than Putin's position on the 'special military operation'. Putin, with his narcissistic megalomania, will not back down. Such authoritarian rulers do not think of the people, the country, only their own image, in which they will never accept defeat. How does that work out for the average citizen? Yeah.
Don't get me wrong Frelga, I wish Ukraine all the luck in the world to be left alone as a sovereign nation, but I don't see Putin accepting 'turn tail & run'. He's not a rational or predictable player. Unlike Rumplestiltskin, I don't think "in his rage he will drive his right foot so far into the ground that it sinks in up to his waist; then in a passion seizes his left foot with both hands and tears himself in two."
Putin is perfectly rational, as despots go. He's not stupid nor is he playing 6D chess. As I said, his situation is not affected by anything that happens outside of Moscow, and he will stay safe as long, and only as long, as the FSB is on his side.
In any case, American intelligence has apparently stopped giving a duck about Putin's threats, and they seem to have a pretty good handle on Kremlin.
If there was anything that depressed him more than his own cynicism, it was that quite often it still wasn't as cynical as real life.
In the last couple of years I've come to view Putin as less savvy than I did previously. When a person (politician, celebrity, what-have-you) has such a strong belief in their unquestioned authority (arrogance) they really lose grip on what is because they refuse to hear anything other than what they WANT. If they are not hearing what they want to hear, said narcissistic authoritarian will search for someone who will tell them what they want to hear. That is likely, in large part, why Putin invaded Ukraine. He thought it would be a cake walk because he was told what he wanted to hear: that the people there loved him and wanted to be a part of Russia. No one dares tell him otherwise because then they fall from high windows. So he is not guided by reality, but a fantasy of his own making. That makes him (in my own very humble opinion) an irrational and unpredictable person. We already knew he was a dangerous person. Such persons do not like to lose face and they have little to no problem taking everyone down around them if they have to go down.
Is it just me or does Zelenskyy's "Without You" speech to Russia read like break-up song lyrics? Like if you adjust some of the words or phrasing it would be Adele's newest hit? It just sticks in the head.
He was a media mogul before he was a politician and it shows.
LOL! I've frequently though that he is very good at manipulating the media! He has a very good sense of what to say to win peoples' support. He knows how to use humour to bolster peoples' spirits. Okay Russian bungling has helped a LOT with this (tanks breaking down, the sinking of the Muskova.) And he comes across as very, very genuine in speeches and interviews. I like him, but have found myself wondering just how much of it is sincerity, and how much is good acting ability (I've been watching Servant of the People on Vision TV.)
When the night has been too lonely, and the road has been too long,
And you think that love is only for the lucky and the strong,
Just remember in the winter far beneath the bitter snows,
Lies the seed, that with the sun's love, in the spring becomes The Rose.
I saw pictures of him in Bucha after the Russians left. That wasn't acting.
I think that if someone had the means to discredit Zelenskyy it would have happened by now. There've been attempts. There was some weird stuff about a Tuscan villa he owns and was allegedly renting out to wealthy Russians. I'm not sure that ever landed in the English language news but it was all over the Serbian press and my husband told me about it. Because the Serbian press is owned by Russian media companies, he was skeptical so he did his own sleuthing. Zelenskyy owns a villa, yes. He had money before he got his current job. And he does rent it out...to an old lady who speaks Russian and identifies as Soviet. Apparently he's also trying to sell it. That's the overall quality of the claims against him though. Most of the stuff my husband comes across he doesn't even verify because the bs is so obvious. Though the claim that Zelenskyy was actually under the control of Nazis in his government did give my husband pause. Then I pointed out that the US offered to evacuate him and his entire family so if he were in fear for his life he had an out. Instead he demanded ammunition.
For people not familiar with the reference - it was customary in the USSR to suspend all radio and TV programming when the head of state died and play Tchaikovsky on repeat. Hence the joke:
"I can't wait to see the Swan Lake again."
"What, in the Bolshoy Theater?"
"No, on TV. But on every channel."
For those unfamiliar with Zelensky's speech, here it is in English.
"Do you still think we are one people? Do you still think you can scare us, break us, force us to make concessions? Don't you really get it? Don't you understand who we are? What we stand for? What we are all about?
Read my lips: Without gas or without you? Without you. Without light or without you? Without you. Without water or without you. Without you. Without food or without you? Without you.
Cold, hunger, darkness and thirst are not as frightening and deadly for us as your friendship and brotherhood. But history will put everything in its place. And we will be with gas, light, water and food...and WITHOUT you!"
Is he acting? Have Americans asked how much of Reagan's presidency was due to his acting ability? Staying in Kiyiv under constant air raids and threats of assassination wasn't acting. Going to the front lines to meet with troops wasn't acting. Keeping Ukraine in the forefront of awareness of nations whose citizens would not have known where to look for Ukraine on the map six month ago was... performance, sure, but that's what got Ukraine the weapons that are turning the tide of war now.
If there was anything that depressed him more than his own cynicism, it was that quite often it still wasn't as cynical as real life.
Yeah, I'd say there is a subtle but important difference between acting and the ability to perform/give a good speech and inspire. It takes an astute person to grasp what is needed in the moment.
I will add to Frelga's explanation of the ballerinas I'll add 'Swan song'. I guess the symbol of the ballerinas, on protest signs and graffiti, are showing up in Russia. Signifying Putin's political (not necessarily physical) death.
I'm not implying anything he says is fake, just that being an actor helps him get his message across. I know he cares very deeply for his country, and that comes across in his speeches. I've sometimes been moved to tears by his speeches, and I really can't think of any other politician who's done that. The country is very, very fortunate to have him.
Frelga, can you give me a link for the full text of his speech, please?
Last edited by Sunsilver on Wed Sep 14, 2022 1:38 am, edited 1 time in total.
When the night has been too lonely, and the road has been too long,
And you think that love is only for the lucky and the strong,
Just remember in the winter far beneath the bitter snows,
Lies the seed, that with the sun's love, in the spring becomes The Rose.
Found on FB: Yet another Russian oil exec has died:
From the Stalin School of Elimination.
Not that I am comparing this dissident oligarch to e.g. Sedov, but ...
OOPSY...
Another Russian oil exec his bit the dust. Well... actually, water...
Ivan Pechorin, 39, managing director of the Corporation for the Development of the Far East and the Arctic, reportedly fell off a boat at full speed and died Saturday near Russky Island in the Sea of Japan in Primorsky Krai, Russia, near Vladivostock, about 5,800 miles east of Moscow.
In case anyone's keeping count, this is the EIGHTH oil exec who has died in a year. In December of 2021, Yegor Prosvirnin—founder of nationalist website Sputnik and Pogrom—fell out of a residential building in Moscow and died.
A similar incident occurred in October that year, when a Russian diplomat was found dead after a fall from a window at the Russian Embassy in Berlin.
Well, at least the PootyGB decided windows are getting old...
When the night has been too lonely, and the road has been too long,
And you think that love is only for the lucky and the strong,
Just remember in the winter far beneath the bitter snows,
Lies the seed, that with the sun's love, in the spring becomes The Rose.
I had no idea what the ballerinas were a reference to but now that I have been educated I am going to spend the rest of the evening giggling.
RoseMorninStar wrote: ↑Tue Sep 13, 2022 9:12 pm
Yeah, I'd say there is a subtle but important difference between acting and the ability to perform/give a good speech and inspire. It takes an astute person to grasp what is needed in the moment.
I agree about the astute person and but the difference between acting and performing isn't that subtle. Performance is watever you're doing with some added elbow grease for your audience. Acting is a game of make believe with performance attached. You can perform without acting. I'm not sure you can act without performing. And if you've ever had to sit through an absolutely terrible talk, you know it looks like when someone isn't performing. So I think Zelenskyy performs on a routine basis. It's part of his job. I suspect his acting ability comes into play when he has to walk into a terrifying situation and perform like his balls are solid brass. He's too old to be truly fearless.
I wasn't able to articulate it as well as you did River.
I used to go into (mostly grade) schools and give presentations on art appreciation. My first 'presentation' was a horrid bomb. I learned very quickly to 'perform and engage' rather than just give a speech. It wasn't play acting (well, occasionally I did a small amount of that too) but the changes I made to my approach made all the difference in the world in capturing the attention of the students.
Indeed, Dave. In fact, the truly brilliant acting comes from the place of sincerity. (Besides. I didn't think very much of Zelensky's acting pre-war. He started on a student improv comedy competition team and that was the style he kept on his show, Kvartal 95.)
Anyway, here are photos of two presidents visiting wounded soldiers.
IF the Russians are soldiers. The same 4-5 people have been spotted in multiple staged photos of "Putin meets the public," dressed as whoever he is supposed to be meeting. Now that's the kind of pretense that I find despicable.
Last edited by Frelga on Wed Sep 14, 2022 3:04 pm, edited 1 time in total.
If there was anything that depressed him more than his own cynicism, it was that quite often it still wasn't as cynical as real life.
Going a bit afield here, but nice interview with Francis "The End of History" Fukuyama on why a (likely) imminent default for Putin means a (likely) imminent setback for MAGA and the rest of the international right-wing populist movements he sponsored, and offers a real opportunity for a democratic renaissance:
In the same vein, Zelensky's recent visit to the liberated Izyum set Russian propagandists into a spin. How come he gets to do this? How come no one was shooting at him while he was within the range of Russian artillery?
Remember when Russia's top general, Valery Gerasimov, visited Izyum in April, he barely got out of there ahead of a rocket strike that took out several high-ranking officers.
If there was anything that depressed him more than his own cynicism, it was that quite often it still wasn't as cynical as real life.
