UK Local Elections May 2021

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Beorhtnoth
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UK Local Elections May 2021

Post by Beorhtnoth »

I understand this is a parochial topic, but I wanted to highlight the election of Joanne Anderson as Mayor of Liverpool. She's black, scouse, and proud of it. Nothing special there? Well, Liverpool is 91% white. A black woman won the election. And a Chinese scouse male ran her a not too distant second.

Scousers are great! :D

That aside, look at Labour's performance in England. Jo Anderson is the Labour candidate, but her win is poor reward on a night of Labour disasters.

Any thoughts?

ETA It would help if I provided a link...

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/20 ... male-mayor
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Re: UK Local Elections May 2021

Post by N.E. Brigand »

Don't let the sun catch Labour crying?

(I didn't realize till now that Gerry Marsden had died earlier this year. R.I.P.)

I chuckled at the news that Jo Anderson succeeded Joe Anderson!
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Re: UK Local Elections May 2021

Post by Beorhtnoth »

N.E. Brigand wrote: Sat May 08, 2021 12:05 am Don't let the sun catch Labour crying?
I think the term is "Sol", not "S*n" in Liverpool ;)
(I didn't realize till now that Gerry Marsden had died earlier this year. R.I.P.)
Gerry, Cilla, The Beatles; for a while, before the Beatles went stratospheric, they all, equally, represented the "Merseybeat".
I chuckled at the news that Jo Anderson succeeded Joe Anderson!
It's been funny seeing how, on the one hand, commentators have taken pains to point out black Jo is no relation of white Joe, whilst on the other insinuating Jo only gained election because thick scousers confused the two...
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Túrin Turambar
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Re: UK Local Elections May 2021

Post by Túrin Turambar »

At the time I'm writing this, the Conservatives have gained 173 council seats, Labour has lost 164, the Lib Dems have lost 28, the Greens have gained 50, UKIP has lost 2, and others have lost 89 (link).

My reading:
Incumbents have done well worldwide during the COVID crisis, which would have benefited the Conservatives.
The Conservative Government has settled Brexit, which would have gained it support while costing support for the Lib Dems (who did well last time as the anti-Brexit party).
The Labour left is angry at the treatment of Jeremy Corbyn, which might explain the shift to the Greens.
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Re: UK Local Elections May 2021

Post by Voronwë the Faithful »

Beorhtnoth wrote: Fri May 07, 2021 11:08 pm I understand this is a parochial topic ...
It's no more parochial than the proliferation of threads about U.S. politics; it's just that there are more of us. ;)

I'm always happy to see posts about things that are going on elsewhere, but I rarely comment much because I usually don't feel qualified to do so. But that doesn't mean that I am not interested.
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Re: UK Local Elections May 2021

Post by Beorhtnoth »

Túrin Turambar wrote: Sat May 08, 2021 12:25 am At the time I'm writing this, the Conservatives have gained 173 council seats, Labour has lost 164, the Lib Dems have lost 28, the Greens have gained 50, UKIP has lost 2, and others have lost 89 (link).
A disastrous result for Labour?
Túrin Turambar wrote:My reading:
Incumbents have done well worldwide during the COVID crisis, which would have benefited the Conservatives.
Labour lost Hartlepool, which it has held for 60 years (since the constituency was created). It is only the second time in recorded memory a government has made a gain in a by-election. This is more than a Covid-19 "bounce". The Conservatives turned a 3,000 vote deficit into a 7,000 majority on a turn out that was 2/3rds of the General Election.
The Conservative Government has settled Brexit, which would have gained it support while costing support for the Lib Dems (who did well last time as the anti-Brexit party).
The Lib Dem vote has been moribund since the decision to go into coalition with the Conservatives in 2010. The LibDems have always performed strongest locally. However, that has not been the case for a while (since 20120...). Nobody knows what the LibDems stand for. The same is of Labour under Starmer.
The Labour left is angry at the treatment of Jeremy Corbyn, which might explain the shift to the Greens.
Large numbers of the Labour left have... left. The treatment of Corbyn deserves a thread of its own!
Many natural Labour voters now feel homeless. Starmer stood for election to leader on a "Corbynist" platform. He reneged once elected. The (ex) members aren't stupid. Neither is the electorate those (ex) members are a part of.
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Re: UK Local Elections May 2021

Post by Frelga »

I don't understand UK politics, but I noticed that people in my timeline, including the TORCers, seem to be equally angry at both parties. Which makes a refreshing difference from the US politics, where the majority of voters only manage to be angry at one party.
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Re: UK Local Elections May 2021

Post by Beorhtnoth »

Frelga wrote: Sat May 08, 2021 12:44 am I don't understand UK politics, but I noticed that people in my timeline, including the TORCers, seem to be equally angry at both parties. Which makes a refreshing difference from the US politics, where the majority of voters only manage to be angry at one party.
Very true! :D

However, roll back a year and a half, and there was only one hate figure, across the media, and across political parties, even his own parliamentary party; step forward one Jeremy Corbyn.

I have never seen the establishment as red in tooth and claw as when they savaged Corbyn. My last vestiges of faith in democracy died these past five years. Fundamental to democracy is an informed electorate. The media ensures that is not the case.

But that is for another thread. Sorry. :)
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Túrin Turambar
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Re: UK Local Elections May 2021

Post by Túrin Turambar »

Frelga wrote: Sat May 08, 2021 12:44 am I don't understand UK politics, but I noticed that people in my timeline, including the TORCers, seem to be equally angry at both parties. Which makes a refreshing difference from the US politics, where the majority of voters only manage to be angry at one party.
I don't know if it is everyone equally angry at both parties so much as Labour supporters being unusually angry at Labour (I don't know how many Tories you have in your timeline ;)). I don't think that the average Tory is infatuated with Boris Johnson, and many people on the right are angry over lockdowns and the like, but he still enjoys a lot of support among the Conservative rank-and-file. Plus he's one of those politicians who seem to be coated in teflon.

Labour, on the other hand - see Beorhtnoth's post above.
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Re: UK Local Elections May 2021

Post by Beorhtnoth »

Sorry to cut across, but the importance of Brexit cannot be overstated, and why Starmer has lost so badly in Hartlepool.

Hartlepool is a leave constituency. It was solidly Labour, so Labour that it elected Peter Mandelson as its MP, even though he is on the extreme right of the Labour Party. A red rosette meant election.

Then Brexit happened.

It is perhaps ironic that Corbyn is what would be called "Lexit" (left for exiting the EU), although he campaigned for remain. Starmer was the standard bearer of the pro-EU wing of the party that rejected the referendum result. Corbyn was forced to incorporate a vote losing commitment to "hold another referendum" in the Labour manifesto for GE 2019.

Places like Hartlepool, leave constituencies, voted Conservative (or Brexit) to affirm the referendum vote. 2019 was the "Brexit election".

Starmer crashed in Hartlepool for two reasons; he embodies Remain, and he ignores the fundamental "left" nature of the electorate, who didn't reject "Corbynism" in 2019, but the EU.
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Re: UK Local Elections May 2021

Post by N.E. Brigand »

Túrin Turambar wrote: Sat May 08, 2021 12:25 am At the time I'm writing this, the Conservatives have gained 173 council seats, Labour has lost 164, the Lib Dems have lost 28, the Greens have gained 50, UKIP has lost 2, and others have lost 89 (link).

My reading:

Incumbents have done well worldwide during the COVID crisis, which would have benefited the Conservatives.

The Conservative Government has settled Brexit, which would have gained it support while costing support for the Lib Dems (who did well last time as the anti-Brexit party).

The Labour left is angry at the treatment of Jeremy Corbyn, which might explain the shift to the Greens.
Among developed countries, I believe the U.K. trails only Israel in the percentage of the population vaccinated for Covid. Surely that helped the incumbent party even more than the general "rally round the flag" effect seen in most countries during the crisis.
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Re: UK Local Elections May 2021

Post by Beorhtnoth »

N.E. Brigand wrote: Sat May 08, 2021 5:51 am Among developed countries, I believe the U.K. trails only Israel in the percentage of the population vaccinated for Covid. Surely that helped the incumbent party even more than the general "rally round the flag" effect seen in most countries during the crisis.
But the UK also has one of the highest mortality rates.

The British media are masters of propaganda. There is no need to lie when one narrative can be promoted simply by ignoring the alternatives.
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Re: UK Local Elections May 2021

Post by Frelga »

Speaking of UK, what's happening in Scotland? Apparently SNP won something and some people are pleased?
:help:

I'm having as much trouble figuring out the UK politics as I did with baseball, and while I have gained a solid understanding of the latter when my son started playing, there is little chance of it happening with the former.
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Re: UK Local Elections May 2021

Post by Beorhtnoth »

A major aim of UK devolution was to ensure the devolved parliaments weren't subject to the same party polarisation as in Westminster. It was designed to promote collegiate politics. There was never any expectation a single party would dominate as the SNP has. The electoral system is supposed to avoid that.

But here we are...
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Re: UK Local Elections May 2021

Post by Túrin Turambar »

There's been a lot of talk about Scotland, but the composition of the Assembly has barely changed (I think that the SNP has gained one seat). They will push for a second independence referendum, so we'll see what happens.
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Re: UK Local Elections May 2021

Post by Voronwë the Faithful »

Apparently there has also been talk of an independence referendum for Wales. Anyone know anything about that?
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Re: UK Local Elections May 2021

Post by Túrin Turambar »

I can envision an independent Scotland, although I still think it'd be a very bad idea for the Scots to cut themselves off from London's economic power. And while I have a deep fondness for the Welsh, and appreciate that, unlike the Scots, they didn't get a choice in joining the U.K., I think an independent Wales would be even worse. The entire Celtic fringe is subsidised by Westminster.

I ran into this article in Merion West this morning by a Corbyn supporter (as far as I can tell) which discusses the Brexit issue Beorhtnoth raised upthread. I tended to see Brexit as a big wedge for Labour, creating an irreconcilable difference between working-class pro-Brexit constituencies in the Midlands and North and fiercely pro-Remain urban progressives. But he argues that "...given the scale of Labour’s electoral defeat in Hartlepool and in local elections across the United Kingdom, it now seems that Labour’s fence-sitting over Brexit was the least of its deficiencies in 2019".

Labour faces the same challenge other centre-left parties do. The Democrats in the U.S. are in the same position, winning more wealthy and educated white voters in Atlanta and Phoenix last year at the expense of working-class non-college-educated white voters in the Midwest and Hispanic voters in south Texas. Labour seems to be struggling more.
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Re: UK Local Elections May 2021

Post by Dave_LF »

Frelga wrote: Sat May 08, 2021 12:44 am I don't understand UK politics, but I noticed that people in my timeline, including the TORCers, seem to be equally angry at both parties. Which makes a refreshing difference from the US politics, where the majority of voters only manage to be angry at one party.
I can't find it now, but yesterday someone I follow tweeted that an unnamed member of Congress who was asked to comment on the Cheney stuff responded with "I just hate everyone right now." And my thought was "finally, a politician whose platform I can really get on board with!" That said, I should note that I am mad at the Democrats, but incandescent with rage at the Republicans and neo-Nazis (but I repeat myself).
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Re: UK Local Elections May 2021

Post by Beorhtnoth »

I ran into this article in Merion West this morning by a Corbyn supporter (as far as I can tell) which discusses the Brexit issue Beorhtnoth raised upthread. I tended to see Brexit as a big wedge for Labour, creating an irreconcilable difference between working-class pro-Brexit constituencies in the Midlands and North and fiercely pro-Remain urban progressives. But he argues that "...given the scale of Labour’s electoral defeat in Hartlepool and in local elections across the United Kingdom, it now seems that Labour’s fence-sitting over Brexit was the least of its deficiencies in 2019".
Brexit was the cross Corbyn was crucified on. Because of Starmer and Corbyn's weak support amongst the Parliamentary Labour Party, he was forced to accept a vote losing second referendum position. This lost him the Brexit seats.
And yet, Labour won over 40%of the vote in Hartlepool in 2019. Labour won 29% last week.
Labour woes are not because of Corbyn.
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Re: UK Local Elections May 2021

Post by Frelga »

Dave_LF wrote: Fri May 14, 2021 7:29 pm That said, I should note that I am mad at the Democrats, but incandescent with rage at the Republicans and neo-Nazis (but I repeat myself).
That's my platform as well.
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