The challenges ahead (Biden's America)

The place for measured discourse about politics and current events, including developments in science and medicine.
Post Reply
User avatar
Voronwë the Faithful
At the intersection of here and now
Posts: 41867
Joined: Mon Nov 21, 2005 1:41 am
Contact:

The challenges ahead (Biden's America)

Post by Voronwë the Faithful »

I thought of titling this "Biden's America" to echo the Trump thread, but they are two very different persons.

These two op-eds from the Washington Post (reprinted by MSN to bypass the paywall) does a good job of summarizing the short- and long-term challenges ahead.

Opinions | Trump has lost. But he can still do a lot of damage to national security.

Opinions | The four-year nightmare that awaits Joe Biden
"Spirits in the shape of hawks and eagles flew ever to and from his halls; and their eyes could see to the depths of the seas, and pierce the hidden caverns beneath the world."
User avatar
Dave_LF
Wrong within normal parameters
Posts: 6413
Joined: Fri Mar 17, 2006 10:59 am
Location: The other side of Michigan

Re: The challenges ahead

Post by Dave_LF »

This definitely will not be the first time a member of the Obama-Biden administration has had to expend most of its efforts cleaning up after its predecessor.
User avatar
Voronwë the Faithful
At the intersection of here and now
Posts: 41867
Joined: Mon Nov 21, 2005 1:41 am
Contact:

Re: The challenges ahead

Post by Voronwë the Faithful »

My father made an interesting suggestion today when I spoke to him on the phone.

Offer Susan Collins a cabinet post.
"Spirits in the shape of hawks and eagles flew ever to and from his halls; and their eyes could see to the depths of the seas, and pierce the hidden caverns beneath the world."
User avatar
elengil
Cat-egorical Herbitual Creativi-Tea
Posts: 6123
Joined: Thu Dec 01, 2005 11:45 pm
Location: Small drinking village with a severe fishing problem

Re: The challenges ahead

Post by elengil »

If Reps keep the senate, I'm not sure there will be a cabinet...
The dumbest thing I've ever bought
was a 2020 planner.

"Does anyone ever think about Denethor, the guy driven to madness by staying up late into the night alone in the dark staring at a flickering device he believed revealed unvarnished truth about the outside word, but which in fact showed mostly manipulated media created by a hostile power committed to portraying nothing but bad news framed in the worst possible way in order to sap hope, courage, and the will to go on? Seems like he's someone we should think about." - Dave_LF
User avatar
Voronwë the Faithful
At the intersection of here and now
Posts: 41867
Joined: Mon Nov 21, 2005 1:41 am
Contact:

Re: The challenges ahead

Post by Voronwë the Faithful »

McConnell will not be able to keep cabinet nominees from getting votes the way that he did with Merrick Garland, and there will be ample votes to confirm reasonable choices with Murkowksi, Romney and (yes) Collins in the Senate.
"Spirits in the shape of hawks and eagles flew ever to and from his halls; and their eyes could see to the depths of the seas, and pierce the hidden caverns beneath the world."
User avatar
River
bioalchemist
Posts: 13193
Joined: Thu Sep 20, 2007 1:08 am
Location: the dry land

Re: The challenges ahead

Post by River »

Trump didn't really bother with getting his preferred people through the nomination process. He just bent the Vacancy Act to breaking. This sets a precedent for Biden, if he has to go that route. Also says something about the quality of Trump's picks, if he was unable or unwilling to take them through the full nomination process in McConnell's Senate.

I wonder...if Biden opened Collins's seat by appointing her, would the Senate confirm her, knowing what it might mean?
When you can do nothing what can you do?
User avatar
Frelga
Meanwhile...
Posts: 20792
Joined: Thu Dec 01, 2005 11:31 pm
Location: Home, where else

Re: The challenges ahead

Post by Frelga »

That would be an interesting move.

One of my favorite things about yesterday was a photo of Dr. and Mr. Biden. To the extent that the role of First Spouse is meaningful, it will be nice to have one who is able to look at her husband with a genuine smile.

Sent from my Pixel 2 using Tapatalk
His philosophy was a mixture of three famous schools -- the Cynics, the Stoics and the Epicureans -- and summed up all three of them in his famous phrase, 'You can't trust any bugger further than you can throw him, and there's nothing you can do about it, so let's have a drink."

Terry Pratchett, Small Gods
User avatar
Sunsilver
Posts: 8025
Joined: Tue Jan 10, 2006 2:41 am
Location: In my rose garden
Contact:

Re: The challenges ahead

Post by Sunsilver »

Very true, Frelga!

Some of the extreme right wing-nuts are convinced Obama is gay, or has had gay lovers in the past, and that Michelle is a trans-sexual. Yes, seriously. They have taken body measurements and shown photos that supposedly prove it!

I look at this photo and say, um....NO WAY!
Attachments
Michelle and Barack Obama.jpg
Michelle and Barack Obama.jpg (45.4 KiB) Viewed 9733 times
When the night has been too lonely, and the road has been too long,
And you think that love is only for the lucky and the strong,
Just remember in the winter far beneath the bitter snows,
Lies the seed, that with the sun's love, in the spring becomes The Rose.
User avatar
Frelga
Meanwhile...
Posts: 20792
Joined: Thu Dec 01, 2005 11:31 pm
Location: Home, where else

Re: The challenges ahead

Post by Frelga »

And also, who cares.

Sent from my Pixel 2 using Tapatalk
His philosophy was a mixture of three famous schools -- the Cynics, the Stoics and the Epicureans -- and summed up all three of them in his famous phrase, 'You can't trust any bugger further than you can throw him, and there's nothing you can do about it, so let's have a drink."

Terry Pratchett, Small Gods
User avatar
Impenitent
Throw me a rope.
Posts: 7118
Joined: Fri Dec 02, 2005 12:13 am
Location: Deep in Oz

Re: The challenges ahead

Post by Impenitent »

Trump received 70 million votes. I can't estimate what proportion of these voters are 'true believers', but somehow real connection needs to be established with them to prevent the chasm from widening.

Dismissing them as ignorant rednecks, or malicious racists, or misguidedly naive cuts off any possibility of understanding the concerns, and fears, and grievances, of the individuals behind the labels.
Last edited by Impenitent on Sun Nov 08, 2020 10:28 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Mornings wouldn't suck so badly if they came later in the day.
User avatar
Inanna
Meetu's little sister
Posts: 16665
Joined: Sat Jan 07, 2006 5:03 pm

Re: The challenges ahead

Post by Inanna »

I agree, Imp.
'You just said "your getting shorter": you've obviously been drinking too much ent-draught and not enough Prim's.' - Jude
User avatar
Frelga
Meanwhile...
Posts: 20792
Joined: Thu Dec 01, 2005 11:31 pm
Location: Home, where else

Re: The challenges ahead

Post by Frelga »

Oh for sure. But there's a wide gap between understanding and legitimizing.

Sent from my Pixel 2 using Tapatalk
His philosophy was a mixture of three famous schools -- the Cynics, the Stoics and the Epicureans -- and summed up all three of them in his famous phrase, 'You can't trust any bugger further than you can throw him, and there's nothing you can do about it, so let's have a drink."

Terry Pratchett, Small Gods
User avatar
Voronwë the Faithful
At the intersection of here and now
Posts: 41867
Joined: Mon Nov 21, 2005 1:41 am
Contact:

Re: The challenges ahead

Post by Voronwë the Faithful »

I couldn't say it any better myself, Impy.
"Spirits in the shape of hawks and eagles flew ever to and from his halls; and their eyes could see to the depths of the seas, and pierce the hidden caverns beneath the world."
User avatar
Snowdog
Posts: 149
Joined: Fri Dec 02, 2005 1:08 am
Location: South Pole

Re: The challenges ahead

Post by Snowdog »

Impenitent wrote:Trump received 70 million votes. I can't estimate what proportion of these voters are 'true believers', but somehow real connection needs to be established with them to prevent the chasm from widening.

Dismissing them as ignorant rednecks, or malicious racists, or misguidedly naive cuts off any possibility of understanding the concerns, and fears, and grievances, of the individuals behind the labels.
I have a hard time reconciling and giving any respect to anyone who sincerely believed in the man and the republican enablers who legitimised him. An Iranian-American friend of mine said it quite well on facebook...

"I don't know half of you half as well as I should like; and I like less than half of you half as well as you deserve."
--Bilbo Baggins
User avatar
River
bioalchemist
Posts: 13193
Joined: Thu Sep 20, 2007 1:08 am
Location: the dry land

Re: The challenges ahead

Post by River »

^^^ The pain the Trump Admin intentionally caused to people I care about and to people I don't is why I wanted them gone. The level of comfort I observed among self-identified rightwingers with the pain being intentionally inflicted on people I both do and do not care about has left me suspicious of their motives and character traits (those who voted for Trump in 2016 but not in 2020 I am more forgiving towards). If you looked at the events on the Southern border and either cheered or shrugged, if you watched our golden door slam shut and either cheered or shrugged, if you watched legal protections roll back for the LGBTQ+ and others who are different and cheered or shrugged...what was in it for you? And was the damage worth it? If you watched us alienate ourselves from allies and either cheered or shrugged, if you watched insane trade policies turn farmers dependent on federal aid because the markets for their crops collapsed and either cheered or shrugged...what was in it for you? If you watched the federal government turn its back on an American territory (and site of a whole lot of pharma manufacturing) get torn down to the foundations by a hurricane and either cheered or shrugged...what was in it for you and was it worth it?

On top of that...if you watched the Trump Admin recalibrate immigration rules to exclude the poor on the grounds they don't contribute and blah blah blah, did you ever pause to consider if that wasn't also a comment on poor Americans? Are you okay with that? Would you still be okay with that if you end up becoming poor?
When you can do nothing what can you do?
User avatar
Frelga
Meanwhile...
Posts: 20792
Joined: Thu Dec 01, 2005 11:31 pm
Location: Home, where else

Re: The challenges ahead

Post by Frelga »

This seems a sound suggestion.
In the next month, Biden and Pelosi should give a joint press conference calling for raising the minimum wage, pelosi should pass a bill in the house and Biden should say “the only thing between this bill and me signing it is Kelly loeffler and David Perdue”
https://twitter.com/samdman95/status/13 ... 51462?s=19

On the second thought, using coronavirus relief bill may be more effective.

Sent from my Pixel 2 using Tapatalk
His philosophy was a mixture of three famous schools -- the Cynics, the Stoics and the Epicureans -- and summed up all three of them in his famous phrase, 'You can't trust any bugger further than you can throw him, and there's nothing you can do about it, so let's have a drink."

Terry Pratchett, Small Gods
User avatar
elengil
Cat-egorical Herbitual Creativi-Tea
Posts: 6123
Joined: Thu Dec 01, 2005 11:45 pm
Location: Small drinking village with a severe fishing problem

Re: The challenges ahead

Post by elengil »

Biden should reinstate McCabe and give him the last days he needs to retire with full benefits, and reinstate Vindman's brother, ask Vindman to return (if that's still possible).
The dumbest thing I've ever bought
was a 2020 planner.

"Does anyone ever think about Denethor, the guy driven to madness by staying up late into the night alone in the dark staring at a flickering device he believed revealed unvarnished truth about the outside word, but which in fact showed mostly manipulated media created by a hostile power committed to portraying nothing but bad news framed in the worst possible way in order to sap hope, courage, and the will to go on? Seems like he's someone we should think about." - Dave_LF
N.E. Brigand
Posts: 3355
Joined: Sat May 26, 2007 1:41 am
Location: Cleveland, OH, USA

Re: The challenges ahead

Post by N.E. Brigand »

I'm open to the idea of giving the rich the tax cuts they want in exchange for massive spending programs.

Yes, that will increase the national debt. But that's not important, and don't let anyone tell you otherwise.

(And Republicans only pretend to care about deficits when Democrats are in charge.)
User avatar
elengil
Cat-egorical Herbitual Creativi-Tea
Posts: 6123
Joined: Thu Dec 01, 2005 11:45 pm
Location: Small drinking village with a severe fishing problem

Re: The challenges ahead

Post by elengil »

N.E. Brigand wrote:I'm open to the idea of giving the rich the tax cuts they want in exchange for massive spending programs.
I don't understand how this is a good trade-off. You bring in less money, you spend more money. The rich get all the benefit and the government spends money it needs to tax the middle-class and poor to regain.

How about go back to the income tax brackets of the 70s, tax rich, corporations, tax stock earnings, raise minimum wage (which raises their taxes!), now we have the funds to spend.
The dumbest thing I've ever bought
was a 2020 planner.

"Does anyone ever think about Denethor, the guy driven to madness by staying up late into the night alone in the dark staring at a flickering device he believed revealed unvarnished truth about the outside word, but which in fact showed mostly manipulated media created by a hostile power committed to portraying nothing but bad news framed in the worst possible way in order to sap hope, courage, and the will to go on? Seems like he's someone we should think about." - Dave_LF
N.E. Brigand
Posts: 3355
Joined: Sat May 26, 2007 1:41 am
Location: Cleveland, OH, USA

Re: The challenges ahead

Post by N.E. Brigand »

elengil wrote:
N.E. Brigand wrote:I'm open to the idea of giving the rich the tax cuts they want in exchange for massive spending programs.
I don't understand how this is a good trade-off. You bring in less money, you spend more money. The rich get all the benefit and the government spends money it needs to tax the middle-class and poor to regain.

How about go back to the income tax brackets of the 70s, tax rich, corporations, tax stock earnings, raise minimum wage (which raises their taxes!), now we have the funds to spend.
It's not a good trade-off. But without the Senate, it's probably the best that Democrats can do.

Republicans are perfectly willing to let people suffer unless they get something in return.
Post Reply