2020 Election: Predictions, Results and Reactions

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Túrin Turambar
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Re: 2020 Election: Predictions, Results and Reactions

Post by Túrin Turambar »

Voronwë the Faithful wrote: Thu Jan 13, 2022 3:30 am Thanks! That says more about her than the Wikipedia article that I read.

Rose, I don't mean to be a contrarian, but it continues to be *my* opinion that whether something is "news" or a "big deal" or even "important" is purely a matter of opinion. No U.S. news outlet is not going to cover the Super Bowl since enough people in the U.S. consider it to be a big deal, but in Australia or Ireland, it would be the opinion of most of the people that a cricket match is a bigger deal than the Super Bowl. Matter of opinion.
I don't think whether something is news is entirely subjective. I would say that a news outlet which reported cases of people with severe vaccine side-effects without reporting on the effects of COVID on the unvaccinated is still misleading its viewers/readers even if everything it reports is factually accurate. Much of the debate over media bias is about what is and isn't reported.

U.S. news outlets will cover the Super Bowl because it's a major topic of interest to American readers. This doesn't involve, to me, a judgement that the Super Bowl is more important than the Premier League or the Ashes. I'd say the same thing about local news - it's reasonable that the New York Times considers the policies of the NYC school boards to be more newsworthy than the policies of the Russian Federal Government. So there is an element of balancing what's big in town verses what's big worldwide. But I don't think it's entirely a matter of opinion.
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Re: 2020 Election: Predictions, Results and Reactions

Post by N.E. Brigand »

The Washington Post reports that Stewart Rhodes, the founder of the Oath Keepers militia group, has been arrested and charged for his role in the January 6th insurrection and that the eleven charges includes "seditious conspiracy." I believe Rhodes had not previously been charged in connection with Jan. 6. The Post adds that ten other individuals, nine of them who had previously faced other charges related to the insurrection, have had seditious conspiracy added to the charges against them in connection with Rhodes. (I believe they are the people in military garb filed in a "stack" filing their way up the Capitol steps.) The actual charging documents are not yet public though.

Edit: Here is the Dept. of Justice press release on the case, with links to the charging documents.

Edit: Marcy Wheeler notes that these Oathkeepers defendants have also been charged today with "Conspiracy to Prevent an Officer from Discharging Duties." She says that's "important" but doesn't say why.
Last edited by N.E. Brigand on Thu Jan 13, 2022 9:13 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: 2020 Election: Predictions, Results and Reactions

Post by N.E. Brigand »

According to the charging documents, at about 1:30 p.m. on January 6, 2020, an Oathkeepers member who was not in D.C. that day sent a message on the group's "Leadership Intel Chat" messaging channel asking if it was Antifa who had attacked the Capitol, and Rhodes replied:

"Nope, I'm right here. These are patriots."
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Re: 2020 Election: Predictions, Results and Reactions

Post by Voronwë the Faithful »

This indictment is definitely a big deal. It would become a bigger deal if Rhodes and/or others make a deal to provide information about certain other people that undoubtedly participated in some way in the seditious conspiracy.
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Re: 2020 Election: Predictions, Results and Reactions

Post by N.E. Brigand »

On January 11, 2021, Rep. Kevin McCarthy, the House Minority Leader, was on a call with House Republicans, and he said this about Donald Trump and the January 6th insurrection:

"I say he has responsibility. He told me personally that he does have some responsibility."

And McCarthy went on in that call to propose the creation of a Congressional commission to investigate Jan. 6th.

Now McCarthy says he has no recollection of saying that. (The link above is to a recording of him saying that.)

- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
In other Jan. 6th news: Tucker Carlson has repeatedly given sympathetic interviews to one of the Oathkeepers charged yesterday with seditious conspiracy.
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Re: 2020 Election: Predictions, Results and Reactions

Post by RoseMorninStar »

So what is anyone's guess as to what went on with Kevin McCarthy? Pay-off? Threat? He changed his tune quickly after a visit to Mar-a-lago last year.
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Re: 2020 Election: Predictions, Results and Reactions

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RoseMorninStar wrote: Fri Jan 14, 2022 7:18 pm So what is anyone's guess as to what went on with Kevin McCarthy? Pay-off? Threat? He changed his tune quickly after a visit to Mar-a-lago last year.
:x :x :x Oh yeah, yet another one gets intimidated into backing down by Donald Trump. Because as we all know, if you say ANYTHING against him, you are in big trouble.
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Re: 2020 Election: Predictions, Results and Reactions

Post by RoseMorninStar »

If people are being threatened I think it's horrible and it needs to stop. If people are selling out (for cash, power, or other personal gain) that's also horrible, but in a different way.
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Re: 2020 Election: Predictions, Results and Reactions

Post by Sunsilver »

Rose, I am sure both scenarios have happened where Trump is concerned.
When the night has been too lonely, and the road has been too long,
And you think that love is only for the lucky and the strong,
Just remember in the winter far beneath the bitter snows,
Lies the seed, that with the sun's love, in the spring becomes The Rose.
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Re: 2020 Election: Predictions, Results and Reactions

Post by Voronwë the Faithful »

The SCOTUS has denied Trump's petition to review the decision of the Court of Appeals denying his attempt to block the National Archives from providing documents to the Select Committee. That clears the way for the documents to immediately be provided.
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Re: 2020 Election: Predictions, Results and Reactions

Post by N.E. Brigand »

Voronwë the Faithful wrote: Wed Feb 10, 2021 6:19 pm Prosecutors in Georgia open criminal investigation into Trump's attempt to influence election results
A prosecutor in Fulton County, Georgia, has opened a criminal investigation into former President Donald Trump for his "attempts to influence the administration of the 2020 Georgia general election."

In a letter sent Wednesday to numerous Georgia state election officials, including Secretary of State Brad Raffensperger, Fulton County District Attorney Fani Willis requested that they preserve documents related to Trump's phone call last month in which he pushed Raffensperger to "find" votes to reverse his election loss.
Willis said the "investigation includes, but is not limited to, potential violations of Georgia election law prohibiting the solicitation of election fraud, the making of false statements to state and local government bodies, conspiracy, racketeering, violation of oath of office, and any involvement in violence of threats related to the election's administration."
Fulton DA requests special grand jury for Trump probe

Not sure if this is good news or bad news for the progress of this case. Apparently witnesses including Georgia's Secretary of State, Brad Raffensberger, have refused to testify without a subpoena, and I guess having a grand jury whose service last more than the usual two months and which is focused solely on one case makes it easier to issue subpoenas?

Empaneling a special grand jury requires the approval of a majority of the Fulton County superior court judges. I don't know if judges in Georgia have a track record of approving or denying such (infrequently-made) requests.
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Re: 2020 Election: Predictions, Results and Reactions

Post by Voronwë the Faithful »

It's definitely good news, in my opinion. It suggests (at least to me) that the D.A. is serious about pursuing this case.

That having been said, I have become very cynical about any of the multitude of probes of Trump's very clearly criminal behavior going anywhere.
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Re: 2020 Election: Predictions, Results and Reactions

Post by N.E. Brigand »

N.E. Brigand wrote: Thu Jan 13, 2022 7:53 pm The Washington Post reports that Stewart Rhodes, the founder of the Oath Keepers militia group, has been arrested and charged for his role in the January 6th insurrection and that the eleven charges includes "seditious conspiracy." I believe Rhodes had not previously been charged in connection with Jan. 6. The Post adds that ten other individuals, nine of them who had previously faced other charges related to the insurrection, have had seditious conspiracy added to the charges against them in connection with Rhodes. (I believe they are the people in military garb filed in a "stack" filing their way up the Capitol steps.) The actual charging documents are not yet public though. (Edit: Here is the Dept. of Justice press release on the case, with links to the charging documents.)
The other Oath Keeper who, along with Rhodes, was newly charged one week ago is Edward Vallejo of Arizona. He wasn't actually at the Capitol during the attack. Rather, he was allegedly part of a "quick reaction force" stationed a few miles away in Arlington, Virginia with weapons that they planned to bring to the fight if Donald Trump invoked the Insurrection Act. Video of Oath Keepers loading guns, ammunition, and supplies (meant to last 30 days, per a text Vallejo sent) into their hotel rooms had been included in previous indictments of Oath Keepers members six months ago or more. In a detention hearing today, prosecutors noted that during the attack, Vallejo sent a text reading, "We have taken the Capitol." Also he tried (but failed) to launch a drone for renaissance reconnaissance that day.

- - - - - - - - - -
One weird item in last week's Oath Keepers indictments is that the group seems to have been inspired in part by a video titled Step By Step Procedure, How We Won When Milosevic Stole Our Elections about the 2000 popular uprising in Serbia. A Talking Points Memo reporter spoke with the video's creator, who claims he never intended to stoke violence, even though in the video he says, "This is what you must put in their hearts: They must feel fear. And while they are counting fake ballots, they must think about, are they going to get out of there alive? Yes, I’m calling you for violence, if that is the only way. Who cares? Yes, I do. Here: taboo, broken."

- - - - - - - - - -
The Daily Beast has a story identifying a donor who seems to have contributed millions of dollars to the efforts to overturn the 2020 election: Dick Uihlein, the billionaire founder and CEO of Uline, a shipping supplies company based in Wisconsin (we regularly get their catalogs here at the office). Already known as a staunch Republican donor, new tax filings by Uihlein's foundation reveal that about $4 million of the more than $16 million donated in 2020 by the foundation (the article says this effectively means donated by Uihlein himself) went to groups who pushed the "Big Lie."

- - - - - - - - - -
The Guardian reports on testimony to the House Select Committee from Stephanie Grisham, who served as the White House press secretary in 2019-2020 (during those ten months, she didn't hold a single press briefing, which is some kind of record: as of today, the first anniversary of Joe Biden taking office, the White House press secretary's office has conducted 170 press briefings in one year) and then as the chief of staff and press secretary to first lady Melania Trump before resigning on January 6. Grisham has reportedly testified that "Donald Trump hosted secret meetings in the White House residence in days before" the insurrection, and that the meetings were scheduled by Mark Meadows; she also identified White House ushers who she said should be able to provide the Committee with the names of the meeting participants. Grisham addtionally testified that the Secret Service would have documents concerning Trump's plans for that day. Not that the Committee should have needed her to tell them that, but it would still be important to know why Trump told the crowd at the Ellipse that he would be joining them at the Capitol yet never actually went there.

(I can no longer read the phrase "secret meeting" without hearing it in the voice of Sean Bean in The Martian.)

- - - - - - - - - - -
CNN today has reporting on what had been hinted over the past couple weeks: it was indeed the Trump campaign (and Rudy Giuliani specifically) who led the efforts in seven states to draw up alternate fake slates of Trump electors (some of whom now ought to be at risk of being charged for forgery) submitted to Congress (presumably in order so that Mike Pence, if only he'd gone along with the scheme, could declare either (a) that those phony slates were legitimate and therefore Trump would be the victor in those states or (b) that there were two slates from each state and that therefore both should be tossed, which would make Trump the victor by dint of having a majority of votes in the other 43 states). CNN says that Giuliani worked hand in hand "with Christina Bobb, a correspondent for the pro-Trump propaganda network One America News." Other outlets has previously identified Bobb as one of the people in the Trump campaign's "war room" in the Willard Hotel on Jan. 6.

- - - - - - - - - -
The Select Committee has requested testimony from Ivanka Trump, in a long letter that notes, among other things, that she is reported to have acted as a go-between for members of Congress trying to get her father to quell the Insurrection. One possibly new piece of information in the letter is that the Committee has heard from Gen. Keith Kellogg, who was then Vice President Pence's National Security Advisor, and who was present when President Trump tried to pressure Pence -- and that Ivanka Trump was also there.

- - - - - - - - -
The Washington Post has published this graphic attempting to illustrate the varying degrees to which different people were involved in an effort, organized or otherwise, to overturn the election results on that day:

Image

As others have observed, what's missing here (so far?), is the connection between those red dots at the top to Alex Jones, Roger Stone, and Rudy Giuliani (and their associates) --although some of them are theoretically encompassed by the circles at the bottom -- and thus to Donald Trump.

Edited to fix medieval typo.
Last edited by N.E. Brigand on Fri Jan 21, 2022 6:38 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: 2020 Election: Predictions, Results and Reactions

Post by Voronwë the Faithful »

For some reason, I did not know until just now that Kimberly Guilfoyle was married to Gavin Newsom when he was mayor of San Francisco. :shock:
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Re: 2020 Election: Predictions, Results and Reactions

Post by N.E. Brigand »

Voronwë the Faithful wrote: Fri Jan 21, 2022 4:17 am For some reason, I did not know until just now that Kimberly Guilfoyle was married to Gavin Newsom when he was mayor of San Francisco. :shock:
You mean you'd never seen this picture before?

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Re: 2020 Election: Predictions, Results and Reactions

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My eyes! They burn!
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Re: 2020 Election: Predictions, Results and Reactions

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"Spirits in the shape of hawks and eagles flew ever to and from his halls; and their eyes could see to the depths of the seas, and pierce the hidden caverns beneath the world."
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Re: 2020 Election: Predictions, Results and Reactions

Post by N.E. Brigand »

The implication being that committee members also want to date Rudy Giuliani, Sidney Powell, and Boris Epshteyn?
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Re: 2020 Election: Predictions, Results and Reactions

Post by Voronwë the Faithful »

I think she was just being flip.

I am really curious to see what Merrick Garland and his team does when there is inevitably a dozen or more referrals for criminal contempt charges.
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Re: 2020 Election: Predictions, Results and Reactions

Post by RoseMorninStar »

Voronwë the Faithful wrote: Fri Jan 21, 2022 3:20 pm And then there is this (which probably should really go in the WTF thread).

Former Trump lawyer Jenna Ellis claims the January 6 committee is subpoenaing her because they're 'mad' they can't 'date' her
I know virtually nothing about Jenna Ellis so my comment is not based on observation of her specifically. There seems to be a lot of narcissism in that crowd (Trump and associates), generally speaking. The 'they are just jealous' or 'they desire me' is a common rebuttal among narcissists. It's a way of casting doubt, changing the narrative/placing the blame elsewhere. Planting seeds of discord and uncertainty for others criticism of them. They never take responsibility or admit they deserve the criticism or blame. For anything.
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