News from Bree and other random discussions

[N.E. Brigand]

Not sure about the slipcase, but in the J.R.R. Tolkien Encyclopedia (2006) entry on The Treason of Isengard, John F.G. Magoun writes:

"At least one edition of The Lord of the Rings has since been published as six individual books, with book 3 bearing the original title" (675).

For a number of years after I purchased my copy of the J.R.R. Tolkien Encyclopedia, I hauled it with me to every Tolkien conference I attended, and thereby acquired the autographs of about 60 of the 125+ contributors (most recently in 2016). Sadly, skimming over those pages, I am reminded that at least four of those signatories have since died (one from complications due to Covid). Another contributor had died even before the book was published, and at least two others that I never met passed on some time after its publication. I think not one of those seven had reached the current average life expectancy in their respective countries.

[Voronwë the Faithful]

Just for kicks.

J. R. R. Tolkien Encyclopedia: A Reader's Diary

I could never bring myself to purchase a copy, given the price. Not that it wasn't worth it.

[N.E. Brigand]

Just for kicks.

J. R. R. Tolkien Encyclopedia: A Reader's Diary

I could never bring myself to purchase a copy, given the price. Not that it wasn't worth it.

There's lots of valuable material in that encyclopedia, but I don't believe it was worth the price. Scull & Hammond's double-decker came out at almost exactly the same time with more information for less than a third the cost.

Some encyclopedia contributors whom I approached for autographs asked if i was aware of the "diary" website. One woman told me if she ever met the people who criticized her work there, she punch them on the nose. I was wearing a name tag, but since my face remained unbloodied, I think she didn't make the connection.

The J.R.R. Tolkien Encyclopedia: A Reader's Diary has been cited just once in scholarly studies, to my knowledge. It was in Tolkien Studies, in a book review of some other work, and it appeared to me almost to have been an addition not by the reviewer but by his editor. The reviewer had cited one of the articles in the Encyclopedia itself as being of value; the citation to the Diary came in an endnote that said, basically, "on the other hand, see also this."

[Voronwë the Faithful]

There's lots of valuable material in that encyclopedia, but I don't believe it was worth the price. Scull & Hammond's double-decker came out at almost exactly the same time with more information for less than a third the cost.

There definitely is a lot of overlap, but their is value to having many different perspectives as opposed to that of two people (albeit, two very knowledgeable people). Still, I did feel that the Scull & Hammond book was sufficient for my needs. I will say that the Encyclopedia was cheap compared to what was asked for Stuart Lee's Collection (even though it did include an excerpt from my book): https://www.bookdepository.com/J-R-R-To ... 1138889774

Some encyclopedia contributors whom I approached for autographs asked if i was aware of the "diary" website. One woman told me if she ever met the people who criticized her work there, she punch them on the nose. I was wearing a name tag, but since my face remained unbloodied, I think she didn't make the connection.

That's hilarious and sad at the same time. I would certainly opine that most of the over the top criticisms in the diary are NOT by you.

The J.R.R. Tolkien Encyclopedia: A Reader's Diary has been cited just once in scholarly studies, to my knowledge. It was in Tolkien Studies, in a book review of some other work, and it appeared to me almost to have been an addition not by the reviewer but by his editor. The reviewer had cited one of the articles in the Encyclopedia itself as being of value; the citation to the Diary came in an endnote that said, basically, "on the other hand, see also this."

Assuming it was in the past ten years or so, I could make a pretty good guess at which Tolkien Studies editor might have added that.

[Túrin Turambar]

Over the last few lockdowns I’ve finally made the point of reading the rest of Tolkien’s books (Roverandom, Leaf, etc) and the recent editions of The Children of Húrin and Tuor and the Fall of Gondolin.

I’m left with conflicted feelings on Christopher’s editorial approach to the later works (which I think isn’t unusual among fans). On one hand, I appreciate his desire to preserve the originals as closely as possible. I’m reminded of Tolkien’s own line in the foreword to LotR on Frodo’s editorial approach to Bilbo’s writing, where he is “unwilling to actually delete anything written by the old hobbit”. On the other, I was left frustrated by what could have been had he not taken an academic approach to the original manuscripts.

Like a lot of fans, I’d been left frustrated that Tolkien ended the final version of Tuor’s story immediately when he first catches sight of Gondolin and never finished it. I didn’t know what to expect when I started the book, but I had hoped that someone had come along Guy Kay style and finished the story using Tolkien’s earlier WWI-era version as a source. Rather, we were left with the original and the unfinished final version. Again, I appreciate that Christopher didn’t want someone to write over his father, but there remains a great story to be told by a good prose writer – even someone able to imitate the style and literary conventions Tolkien uses to great effect in LotR. As it stands, I’m not sure if there was much point in publishing content already available in HoME and UT, even with Alan Lee’s illustrations.

I don’t know if the Estate has any plans to continue with the legendarium. Or what will happen when Copyright on Tolkien's work expires.

[Jude]

This article is from 2015 so maybe it's been discussed before, but it's news to me:

Map of Middle Earth annotated by J.R.R. Tolkien uncovered in old book

Hidden in an old copy of The Lord of the Rings, a U.K. rare book store has found a map of Middle-earth annotated by J.R.R. Tolkien himself.

The map, found in a book given to Blackwell's Rare Books, has Tolkien commenting on numerous facets of the world of the popular book series. Most notably is that Hobbiton, seated within the Shire and the home of numerous Hobbits in the stories, is the same latitude as Oxford, England. Tolkien's annotations also suggest Ravenna in Italy inspired the city of Minas Tirith.

The book containing the map belonged to illustrator Pauline Baynes, who drew much of the famous maps of both Tolkien's Middle-earth and C.S. Lewis' Narnia. Baynes had taken the map from a different copy of The Lord of the Rings to work on the colour edition, later published in 1970, according to the Guardian.

Blackwell's has the map for sale in Oxford for £60,000, nearly $121,000 Cdn, where the company is also exhibiting it.

The Independent said a representative from the company called it "the finest piece of Tolkien ephemera to emerge in the last 20 years at least."

Tolkien referenced cities such as Cyprus, Jerusalem and Belgrade to describe locations in Middle-earth, among ideas for various regions' wildlife and environments for Baynes' illustrations.

"The map shows how completely obsessed he was with the details. Anyone else interfered at their peril," Sian Wainwright told the Guardian. "He was tricky to work with, but very rewarding in the end."

The article has pictures from the book.

[Frelga]

If I knew about it, I had forgotten.

Tolkien really wanted to make Middle-earth into a detailed and realistic backdrop for his story.

Ironically, Kiril Eskov was originally inspired to write his "fan" novel, The Last Ringbearer, by looking at the map of Middle-earth and saying, "Wait, mountains don't work like that."

[RoseMorninStar]

"The map shows how completely obsessed he was with the details. Anyone else interfered at their peril," Sian Wainwright told the Guardian. "He was tricky to work with, but very rewarding in the end."

It can be frustrating to work (or be) people who know exactly what they want and demand nothing less, but it is better than those who don't know what they want/are wishy-washy and end up with an inferior product.

Ironically, Kiril Eskov was originally inspired to write his "fan" novel, The Last Ringbearer, by looking at the map of Middle-earth and saying, "Wait, mountains don't work like that."

Perhaps in lands without the Ainur, specifically Melkor, mountains don't work that way.

[Jude]

Here's something I stumbled upon by accident: the earliest know recording of Tolkien speaking, in 1929. He had a job as a voice teacher in an English tutorial:



I feel this is like Merry explaining tobacco to King Théoden in minute detail.

[RoseMorninStar]

Interesting that he rolls some of his R's.

[Túrin Turambar]

That's a great find! I remember suburban tobacconists like he described in the video from when I was a kid, they sold all sorts of things. The one at my local shopping centre sold ships in bottles. Not something you see around nowadays.

[Frelga]

Today I learned.

[Frelga]

At the link is a thoughtful and in-depth discussion of Dwarvish religion in Pratchett as a "Hold my beer" to Tolkien, in a similar vein as Ents are a "Hold my beer" to Shakespeare.

This part is actually the one I am less in agreement with, especially as it concerns Cheery Littlebottom, but I do think they are correct regarding the Jewishness of Dwarves in both universes.

Pratchett looked at Tolkien’s worldbuilding and his assertion that “The Dwarves of course are quite obviously—wouldn’t you say that in many ways they remind you of the Jews? Their words are Semitic obviously, constructed to be Semitic” (From a 1964 interview with Dennis Geuroult, that is a quote from Tolkien), took it, shook it around, turned it upside down, scraped out the horrid bits, and went “Well… what if they were?”

This part, I think, is spot on.

lot of what (Tolkien) did strikes you as extraordinary because he tried to do it systematically and on such a sweeping scale. But going into the smaller details of his world-building, I think the only things he’s ever taken 100% seriously are genealogies and made-up grammar. Tolkien does a lot, and I say this as someone who grew up as a fan of his work. But at the level of story-telling, he builds histories, not societies.

Tolkien wanted to write a mythology for England. Pratchett wanted to write a fantasy world that works not as a fantasy but as a world.

Riding that train of thought to the next station, I think that it is essential to understanding Tolkien to remember that he had been a soldier. His writing is full of nostalgia for the past that, while every bit as violent and harsh as the present was still better, if only because so many losses have not happened yet.

Pratchett started out in a local newspaper and went on to write press releases for nuclear power plants.

[Inanna]

My sis and I were just discussing the fact that the lack of women in LOTR is likely because Tolkien’s experience in WWII had such an impact on him.

And I loved all those posts. Thank you for posting it, Frelga.

“Tak does not require you to think of him. But he does require you to think” should be… I don’t know… the vanguard of religions??

[Túrin Turambar]

Tolkien spent his formative years in all-male environments - school, university, army - and was a fan of old literature where most of the characters were men. That said, I actually think he's better at writing women than some of his contemporaries (e.g. Lewis, Orwell). His mother's influence might have helped.

[Frelga]

Better than a lot of our contemporaries, TBH.

He writes women as archetypes, but also as complete characters, with personal growth, development, and plot objectives other than strictly to marry the hero. (Arwen is an exception, but equally Aragorn's objective could be said to marry her, and she is supposed to have watched him from afar, even if she didn't magically direct horses to him). And they frequently are in positions of power in various ways.

PS sorry, I didn't realize that the Tumblr post was getting previewed. Is it new since the update? Should I spoiler it?

[Voronwë the Faithful]

No, it was previewed before the update as well. But as far as I am concerned, there is no need to spoiler it.

[Frelga]

Ah, it's not being previewed on Tapatalk, which is why I didn't realize it until I opened the thread in the browser.

[Frelga]

This Tumblr post about the farewell to Boromir made me revisit something I have thought about before. The Breaking of the Fellowship is the first time we see Aragorn without hobbits around him.

To the hobbits, young, raw recruits that they are, Aragorn is the decisive and competent, yet compassionate, leader. He wants them to feel safe(r), so he is always a pillar of strength. Legolas and Gimli are children of leaders, and experienced warriors themselves. He can share his doubts and even fears with them. They get it.

#TolkienWasASoldier

[RoseMorninStar]

Fully functioning Hobbiton replica and B&B coming to my neck o' the woods?