Lord of the Rings series!?

For discussion of Amazon's new television show "The Lord of the Rings: The Rings of Power"
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Re: Lord of the Rings series!?

Post by Voronwë the Faithful »

That is ... .
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Re: Lord of the Rings series!?

Post by Voronwë the Faithful »

And then there is this one:
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Re: Lord of the Rings series!?

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Details.
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Re: Lord of the Rings series!?

Post by Eldy »

Armenelos looks fantastic in every sense of the word. Can't wait to see more!
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Re: Lord of the Rings series!?

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The amount of detail in that shot of Armenelos is staggering. And here’s production designer Ramsey Avery discussing what went into it:

https://bit.ly/3dt4puP
Last edited by Stranger Wings on Fri Aug 12, 2022 4:23 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Lord of the Rings series!?

Post by Voronwë the Faithful »

The word replacement function that I put in place that automatically puts the diacritical mark in Númenor is messing up your link. Sorry about that.
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Re: Lord of the Rings series!?

Post by Eldy »

I've been turning to URL shorteners to get around the word replacement problem whenever posting a link that includes Númenor in the URL.

https://bit.ly/3dt4puP

This should take you to the article Stranger Wings mentioned.
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Re: Lord of the Rings series!?

Post by Voronwë the Faithful »

Thanks Eldy! ❤️
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Re: Lord of the Rings series!?

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Voronwë the Faithful wrote: Fri Aug 12, 2022 1:43 am Details.
That mural (which I think could depict a procession of Númenórean kings and queens, including Eärendil with Elwing - as a gull - on the furthest right), is one of the best things I've seen thus far, and reminds me a lot of the procession of figures (done in mosaic) in the Byzantine Basilica of San Vitale in Ravenna, one of my favorite bits of Christian art (up there with some of the brilliant Norman-Byzantine-Arab style mosaics in Sicily: Monreale, Cefalu Cathedral, etc. I think it fits Númenor perfectly, and I just love that level of in-universe historical detail here. One simply cannot accuse these showrunners of creating a cheap Tolkien knockoff, no matter how the finished product turns out.
Last edited by Stranger Wings on Fri Aug 12, 2022 4:27 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Lord of the Rings series!?

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Eldy wrote: Fri Aug 12, 2022 4:19 pm I've been turning to URL shorteners to get around the word replacement problem whenever posting a link that includes Númenor in the URL.

https://bit.ly/3dt4puP

This should take you to the article Stranger Wings mentioned.
Thanks Eldy! I've also edited my original post to include your shortened link.

Such a funny problem. I guess V couldn't have guessed that we would end up having a bunch of URLs with the word Númenor in them!
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Re: Lord of the Rings series!?

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This article from the Times of India is only tangentially about ROP, but it includes the following tidbit:
Opening up about the adventures that await his character, he says, "In the beginning of the series, Elendil is a sea captain, a very capable mariner. He is a widower trying to bring up his three adult children. All of us are suffering from great grief and there is a great turbulence in the family. What you find is that Númenor has been polarised between people with a nationalist view, the people who want to live forever – the kingsmen, and those who are loyal to the elves. That polarization is represented between the family and Elendil finds himself being drawn toward the seat of power. He has a battle going on between his head and his heart. His heart is elvish and loyal, but his head is practical and trying to chart a beautiful route for his family in the new world and new city."
I think this is the clearest piece of evidence yet that Anárion will feature in the show, though we've previously heard that he'll be "offscreen" at the start of the series.

Owen also states in the latest interview that Elendil is a "reluctant hero – a man who doesn't want to lead." When asked if Narsil is forged in this season, he said, "There is a sword in this season, but I can't tell you whether it is [Narsil] or not." This is a bit odd, since book!Narsil was forged by Telchar of Nogrod, and Nogrod was said to be destroyed at the end of the First Age. Then again, I've long suspected that Belegost and Nogrod were not quite as destroyed as we're told, since the Dwarf clans originally based there evidently survived into the second half of the Second Age, long enough to build hoards around two of the Great Rings given by Sauron to the Dwarves.
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Re: Lord of the Rings series!?

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Regarding the Númenor article from aboutamazon.com, there is some really interesting stuff there, though this part gave me pause...
While Tolkien’s writings didn’t go into great detail describing Númenor, a single slip of the tongue revealed a thousand words about his vision of the long-lost land. Avery shared that at one point, Tolkien said, “I just got back from Númenor—I mean, Venice.”

“This revealed a sensibility of what he imagined Númenor looked like in real life,” said Avery. “A city like Venice that’s built on water with multiple influences over time.”
...since the comment in question, from Letter 168, actually equated Gondor with Venice, not Númenor. Nonetheless, I think this is a cool direction to take for the design of show!Númenor, and as stated I look forward to seeing more of it. :)
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Re: Lord of the Rings series!?

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Eldy wrote: Fri Aug 12, 2022 4:26 pm This article from the Times of India is only tangentially about ROP, but it includes the following tidbit:
Opening up about the adventures that await his character, he says, "In the beginning of the series, Elendil is a sea captain, a very capable mariner. He is a widower trying to bring up his three adult children. All of us are suffering from great grief and there is a great turbulence in the family. What you find is that Númenor has been polarised between people with a nationalist view, the people who want to live forever – the kingsmen, and those who are loyal to the elves. That polarization is represented between the family and Elendil finds himself being drawn toward the seat of power. He has a battle going on between his head and his heart. His heart is elvish and loyal, but his head is practical and trying to chart a beautiful route for his family in the new world and new city."
I think this is the clearest piece of evidence yet that Anárion will feature in the show, though we've previously heard that he'll be "offscreen" at the start of the series.

Owen also states in the latest interview that Elendil is a "reluctant hero – a man who doesn't want to lead." When asked if Narsil is forged in this season, he said, "There is a sword in this season, but I can't tell you whether it is [Narsil] or not." This is a bit odd, since book!Narsil was forged by Telchar of Nogrod, and Nogrod was said to be destroyed at the end of the First Age. Then again, I've long suspected that Belegost and Nogrod were not quite as destroyed as we're told, since the Dwarf clans originally based there evidently survived into the second half of the Second Age, long enough to build hoards around two of the Great Rings given by Sauron to the Dwarves.
Note that the questioner asks if Narsil will be forged (perhaps getting stuck on the fact that it is reforged in LOTR), and that Owen simply says that there is a sword in this season. So even if Narsil is that sword, Owen does not imply that it has to be forged. Just that it's...in the season.
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Re: Lord of the Rings series!?

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Stranger Wings wrote: Fri Aug 12, 2022 4:31 pmNote that the questioner asks if Narsil will be forged (perhaps getting stuck on the fact that it is reforged in LOTR), and that Owen simply says that there is a sword in this season. So even if Narsil is that sword, Owen does not imply that it has to be forged. Just that it's...in the season.
Fair point! There are certainly other reasons Elendil might not have the sword, including his father being alive (though I don't think we've heard any whispers of Amandil being in the show), or the sword not being an heirloom of the House of Valandil in the show's continuity.

Or he does already have it and is just playing coy to be a troll. :P
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Re: Lord of the Rings series!?

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Eldy wrote: Fri Aug 12, 2022 4:30 pm Regarding the Númenor article from aboutamazon.com, there is some really interesting stuff there, though this part gave me pause...
While Tolkien’s writings didn’t go into great detail describing Númenor, a single slip of the tongue revealed a thousand words about his vision of the long-lost land. Avery shared that at one point, Tolkien said, “I just got back from Númenor—I mean, Venice.”

“This revealed a sensibility of what he imagined Númenor looked like in real life,” said Avery. “A city like Venice that’s built on water with multiple influences over time.”
...since the comment in question, from Letter 168, actually equated Gondor with Venice, not Númenor. Nonetheless, I think this is a cool direction to take for the design of show!Númenor, and as stated I look forward to seeing more of it. :)
Also, Avery just mentioned Venice as one inspiration. He also discussed inspiration from North African and Middle Eastern architecture, there are some Mughal Indian-looking structures, and I see many very clear Byzantine influences as well, between the Hagia Sophia-like royal palace, to the murals. The Venetian touches are there as well, but the city as a whole looks decidedly southern Mediterranean, and not northern (not least as it's not flat like Venice, and is nestled among rocky cliffs that are highly reminiscent of the southwestern Italian coast). That said, Venice is also full of Byzantine art, with some Ottoman influences given the long years of trade between them, so Avery may be drawing on those styles as well.

Overall, incredibly impressive. Far more than I hoped for.
Eldy wrote: Fri Aug 12, 2022 4:32 pm
Stranger Wings wrote: Fri Aug 12, 2022 4:31 pmNote that the questioner asks if Narsil will be forged (perhaps getting stuck on the fact that it is reforged in LOTR), and that Owen simply says that there is a sword in this season. So even if Narsil is that sword, Owen does not imply that it has to be forged. Just that it's...in the season.
Fair point! There are certainly other reasons Elendil might not have the sword, including his father being alive (though I don't think we've heard any whispers of Amandil being in the show), or the sword not being an heirloom of the House of Valandil in the show's continuity.

Or he does already have it and is just playing coy to be a troll. :P
I think he's trolling. :)
Last edited by Stranger Wings on Fri Aug 12, 2022 7:28 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Lord of the Rings series!?

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Stranger Wings wrote: Fri Aug 12, 2022 4:36 pmOverall, incredibly impressive. Far more than I hoped for.
Fully agreed! I acknowledge I was being somewhat pedantic regarding the quote from the Letters.
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Re: Lord of the Rings series!?

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It's Robert Aramayo's turn for an interview about his character (Elrond):

Robert Aramayo Sheds Light On A Younger Elrond In Rings Of Power - Exclusive Interview - Looper
He's obviously closer to the choice that he made, in all of the paths that you're talking about, than he is to the council of Elrond. There's a lot that has to go on in between now and then that leads him there. Right now, he's definitely in a moment of "Who am I?" He's closer to being an orphan than he is to being a Lord, but he's trying so hard to be the Herald of Gil-galad. He still believes the things that he's been taught about the Elven way and all that stuff. 

I feel like, reading the material, you could argue that his great strength is his ability to see. He's one of the fundamental of Maedhros that he brings people together, but he isn't there yet either. Right now, he's still unresolved, with his dad, and his mom, and his past, and his brother.
That was another one of those interesting things that we spoke about. When did she [Galadriel] come into my life? It's clear that she's been in my life for quite a long time and he admires her greatly. She's a legend already to him and so he admires her, and that's where [he finds] that first difficult decision he has to make, which comes up a lot for Elrond of friendship and duty — honoring his friendship and his admiration for her but, at the same time, honoring the will of his king, and sometimes, those things don't match up and that's complicated.

There's a lot of layers there.

She's powerful, man, in so many ways. He admires how headstrong she is, and what she's done and what she's seen, it's pretty difficult to ignore. She's one of his heroes.
For him, it's about duty. I'm not sure yet that he's realized his greatest strength, and he has many different parts of what he achieves in his life you could point to and be like, "That was amazing, and that was [also] amazing." He achieved this, and that's incredible. What's at the bottom of it is what is necessary. At this moment, [it is necessary] to serve something that's greater than himself. 

I feel like when you've come from your dad and your mom served the world, and your brother created one of the greatest nations that's ever existed, and then here you are, the Herald of Gil-galad, it's a lot to live up to. It's a lot of pressure. He is connected, [and] his greatest decisions will come from that, will come from necessity, from need. That's where his choices come from, and love, emotionality. 

When I read about him, I'm always really interested in the way that Tolkien talks about [how Elrond is] counted amongst the immortals, which is an interesting thing. Counted, it doesn't necessarily say that he is one. Technically, he's immortal, but to me, it suggests something interesting about what mortality means to him, and literally what mortality is inside of him. If you had to cut him up, he's immortal, but "What does half-elven mean?" was one of the most interesting questions about creating him.
There's a bunch more in the article, but I don't want to quote the whole thing. Interestingly, Aramayo says that Elrond is the youngest Elf we see in the series, which would seem to point to Celebrían not appearing yet (which makes sense given what we know about show!Galadriel's role).
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Re: Lord of the Rings series!?

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He is specifically asked about Celebrían in that interview and he says "Don't know." :?

Meanwhile, of the top of my head I am not familiar with this story. Anyone know what he is referrng to:
I think so, because I love this great story that I saw with Christopher Tolkien talking about an amazing landscape that he was looking at when he was a kid with his dad, and there was a little train going across the landscape, and there's steam coming out the train, and Christopher was saying how beautiful it was. 

JR was like, "Except the train." I feel like he hated that ability, and it's something that's interesting in the world today, with us being disconnected from the natural world — he saw it coming. He hated the steam train. Human beings need to get ahead and do things faster, and that's replicated here in some way with how all elements of the machine operate in any of his works, people trying to supersede or jump ahead.
ETA: I was surprised to see that Celebrían was not in the word filter. I remedied that.
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Voronwë the Faithful wrote: Fri Aug 12, 2022 6:27 pmHe is specifically asked about Celebrían in that interview and he says "Don't know." :?
Ah, RIP my reading comprehension after waking up but before eating. :salmon:

The train story isn't ringing any bells for me either, but that doesn't necessarily mean much.
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Re: Lord of the Rings series!?

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Eldy wrote: Fri Aug 12, 2022 4:52 pm It's Robert Aramayo's turn for an interview about his character (Elrond):

Robert Aramayo Sheds Light On A Younger Elrond In Rings Of Power - Exclusive Interview - Looper
He's obviously closer to the choice that he made, in all of the paths that you're talking about, than he is to the council of Elrond. There's a lot that has to go on in between now and then that leads him there. Right now, he's definitely in a moment of "Who am I?" He's closer to being an orphan than he is to being a Lord, but he's trying so hard to be the Herald of Gil-galad. He still believes the things that he's been taught about the Elven way and all that stuff. 

I feel like, reading the material, you could argue that his great strength is his ability to see. He's one of the fundamental of Maedhros that he brings people together, but he isn't there yet either. Right now, he's still unresolved, with his dad, and his mom, and his past, and his brother.
That was another one of those interesting things that we spoke about. When did she [Galadriel] come into my life? It's clear that she's been in my life for quite a long time and he admires her greatly. She's a legend already to him and so he admires her, and that's where [he finds] that first difficult decision he has to make, which comes up a lot for Elrond of friendship and duty — honoring his friendship and his admiration for her but, at the same time, honoring the will of his king, and sometimes, those things don't match up and that's complicated.

There's a lot of layers there.

She's powerful, man, in so many ways. He admires how headstrong she is, and what she's done and what she's seen, it's pretty difficult to ignore. She's one of his heroes.
For him, it's about duty. I'm not sure yet that he's realized his greatest strength, and he has many different parts of what he achieves in his life you could point to and be like, "That was amazing, and that was [also] amazing." He achieved this, and that's incredible. What's at the bottom of it is what is necessary. At this moment, [it is necessary] to serve something that's greater than himself. 

I feel like when you've come from your dad and your mom served the world, and your brother created one of the greatest nations that's ever existed, and then here you are, the Herald of Gil-galad, it's a lot to live up to. It's a lot of pressure. He is connected, [and] his greatest decisions will come from that, will come from necessity, from need. That's where his choices come from, and love, emotionality. 

When I read about him, I'm always really interested in the way that Tolkien talks about [how Elrond is] counted amongst the immortals, which is an interesting thing. Counted, it doesn't necessarily say that he is one. Technically, he's immortal, but to me, it suggests something interesting about what mortality means to him, and literally what mortality is inside of him. If you had to cut him up, he's immortal, but "What does half-elven mean?" was one of the most interesting questions about creating him.
There's a bunch more in the article, but I don't want to quote the whole thing. Interestingly, Aramayo says that Elrond is the youngest Elf we see in the series, which would seem to point to Celebrían not appearing yet (which makes sense given what we know about show!Galadriel's role).
Aramayo mentions Maedhros! Never did I expect an actor to ever say the name Maedhros…What a time we live in.
Last edited by Stranger Wings on Fri Aug 12, 2022 10:24 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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