Lord of the Rings series!?

For discussion of Amazon's new television show "The Lord of the Rings: The Rings of Power"
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Voronwë the Faithful
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Re: Lord of the Rings series!?

Post by Voronwë the Faithful »

Definitely an understatement! Though I have to say that it makes me sad every time I see this thread and see who started it. :(
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Re: Lord of the Rings series!?

Post by RoseMorninStar »

Voronwë the Faithful wrote: Tue Aug 02, 2022 10:04 pm Definitely an understatement! Though I have to say that it makes me sad every time I see this thread and see who started it. :(
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Re: Lord of the Rings series!?

Post by Stranger Wings »

Another short promo with some very cool dwarven chanting (that seems to be in-universe, from the rock competition, and not the score):

https://twitter.com/lotronprime/status/ ... fYx5zNyQOA
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Re: Lord of the Rings series!?

Post by Voronwë the Faithful »

That's pretty cool!
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Re: Lord of the Rings series!?

Post by Eldy »

Nice!

Presumably Galadriel's line "come with me to Middle-earth" is spoken in Númenor—to Elendil? Or Halbrand? Both?
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Re: Lord of the Rings series!?

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The more I think about it, the more I realize that the whole "Galadriel goes to Númenor and founds a fellowship" is the biggest change from the lore that we have seen, and potentially the most disconcerting, much as I am liking Morfydd Clark in the role. I am really having a heard time seeing how they can pull that off without deviating so far from what Tolkien wrote as to be completely unrecognizable.

What say you?
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Re: Lord of the Rings series!?

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Voronwë the Faithful wrote: Thu Aug 04, 2022 12:28 am The more I think about it, the more I realize that the whole "Galadriel goes to Númenor and founds a fellowship" is the biggest change from the lore that we have seen, and potentially the most disconcerting, much as I am liking Morfydd Clark in the role. I am really having a heard time seeing how they can pull that off without deviating so far from what Tolkien wrote as to be completely unrecognizable.

What say you?
The way I see it is that Galadriel's visit is being used as a visceral way of showing the division between the Faithful and the followers of Pharazon, and exposing those rifts in Númenórean society that will turn into chasms by the end. And in that context, if it's done well, I'm for it. Honestly, I think there are changes in the LOTR films that feel far more significant, such as the changes to Faramir and the total elimination of the Dúnedain.
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Re: Lord of the Rings series!?

Post by Voronwë the Faithful »

If she is still there when Sauron is brought back to the island, that is likely to be a dealbreaker for me, but we probably won't know that for years.
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Re: Lord of the Rings series!?

Post by Eldy »

I'm hoping that Galadriel's sojourn in Númenor will be a short one, at least during S1 (maybe she'll be back later). If she's forming a fellowship to take on a quest, said question will probably take her through wilder lands than a small, densely-populated island which is unlikely to be Sauron's hiding place. Perhaps Míriel ends up being a sponsor of Galadriel's fellowship, since apparently her palantír use has led Míriel to have a similar wariness about the state of the world. And unless all of the battle scenes glimpses in the trailers are from flashbacks, which I think is unlikely, there will be some large-scale action, probably also not in Númenor.

Galadriel being in Númenor at the same time as Sauron would be a pretty major change, no doubt, but I assume (something something what does that say) that will come after the forging of the Rings, and likely some war. So, a way's off yet, probably.
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Re: Lord of the Rings series!?

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Voronwë the Faithful wrote: Thu Aug 04, 2022 1:32 am If she is still there when Sauron is brought back to the island, that is likely to be a dealbreaker for me, but we probably won't know that for years.
We already know from the trailers that she returns to Middle Earth with Míriel and a contingent of Númenórean cavalry, so…she very likely won’t still be there when Sauron is brought to Númenor. And Sauron is definitely not going to Númenor this season. Right?
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Re: Lord of the Rings series!?

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Stranger Wings wrote: Thu Aug 04, 2022 12:50 am
Voronwë the Faithful wrote: Thu Aug 04, 2022 12:28 am The more I think about it, the more I realize that the whole "Galadriel goes to Númenor and founds a fellowship" is the biggest change from the lore that we have seen, and potentially the most disconcerting, much as I am liking Morfydd Clark in the role. I am really having a heard time seeing how they can pull that off without deviating so far from what Tolkien wrote as to be completely unrecognizable.

What say you?
The way I see it is that Galadriel's visit is being used as a visceral way of showing the division between the Faithful and the followers of Pharazon, and exposing those rifts in Númenórean society that will turn into chasms by the end. And in that context, if it's done well, I'm for it. Honestly, I think there are changes in the LOTR films that feel far more significant, such as the changes to Faramir and the total elimination of the Dúnedain.
I was going to say something similar but Stranger Wings said it so much better than I could. I'll just add that with the timeline compression being done, Galadriel showing up in Númenor 'makes sense' in some ways. From what I've seen and heard recently, I think they may have a better grasp on the core material than PJ Boyens-Walsh and Co. ever had. May we not hear any 'meat-on-menu' lines and have a comic-relief dwarf in the mix.
Last edited by Snowdog on Fri Aug 05, 2022 1:23 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Lord of the Rings series!?

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Snowdog wrote: Thu Aug 04, 2022 11:00 pm
Stranger Wings wrote: Thu Aug 04, 2022 12:50 am
Voronwë the Faithful wrote: Thu Aug 04, 2022 12:28 am The more I think about it, the more I realize that the whole "Galadriel goes to Númenor and founds a fellowship" is the biggest change from the lore that we have seen, and potentially the most disconcerting, much as I am liking Morfydd Clark in the role. I am really having a heard time seeing how they can pull that off without deviating so far from what Tolkien wrote as to be completely unrecognizable.

What say you?
The way I see it is that Galadriel's visit is being used as a visceral way of showing the division between the Faithful and the followers of Pharazon, and exposing those rifts in Númenórean society that will turn into chasms by the end. And in that context, if it's done well, I'm for it. Honestly, I think there are changes in the LOTR films that feel far more significant, such as the changes to Faramir and the total elimination of the Dúnedain.
I was going to say something similar but Stranger Wings said it so much better than I could. I'll just add that with the timeline compression being done, Galadriel showing up in Númenor 'makes sense' in some ways. From what I've seen and heard recently, I think they may have a betetr grasp on the core material than PJ Boyens-Walsh and Co. ever had. May we not hear any 'meat-on-menu' lines and have a comic-relief dwarf in the mix.
I have a strong feeling that a number of skeptical fans are going to be pleasantly surprised.
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Re: Lord of the Rings series!?

Post by Voronwë the Faithful »

Some, but I suspect that many will be locked into their views long before the show is released.
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Re: Lord of the Rings series!?

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If it's of a very high quality, the social media narrative will change dramatically for the better. If it's mediocre, on the other hand, the vitriol will get worse.
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Re: Lord of the Rings series!?

Post by Voronwë the Faithful »

Maybe.
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Re: Lord of the Rings series!?

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Voronwë the Faithful wrote: Fri Aug 05, 2022 1:39 am Some, but I suspect that many will be locked into their views long before the show is released.
There is a segment of self-appointed "true Tolkien Fans" gatekeeper that have made their minds up and will not change. They hate it, period. The only thing to be determined is their level of hatred. Why they would watch something they hate is beyond me.
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Re: Lord of the Rings series!?

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Yes, but undeniable quality or an overwhelmingly positive critical and audience reception can have a way of marginalizing those steadfast voices. It certainly happened with PJ’s LOTR. As a non-fan of his films overall, I get mostly incredulous reactions from people when I express that opinion.
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Re: Lord of the Rings series!?

Post by Voronwë the Faithful »

True enough, though of course there are different communities. There is the general public. There is the critical response. There is the general Tolkien fan community. And then there is the community of Tolkien scholarship. Among that community, the voice of the few individuals who praised the films, like John Rateliff and (at least to some extent) the great Tom Shippey, where the outliers, while the voices of those who criticized the films like David Bratman and the great Verlyn Flieger represented the great majority. For what it is worth.

As for the upcoming series, I'm still on the fence. I'm encouraged by much of what I have seen, and I have very well convinced that there is much that I will like (if I ever see it). But I'm still not sold on some aspects of what appear to be the potential storyline. In particular, I am very much not sold on the whole Galadriel goes to Númenor and forms a fellowship thing, or the backstory they seem to be concocting for Aragorn's forefathers, which I expect to very significantly conflict with what Tolkien wrote in the Akallabêth and all of the associated stories related to it, including the Lost Road and the Notion Club Papers. And the more I think about that, the more wary I become.
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Re: Lord of the Rings series!?

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All I go back to is that this is a 50-hour story and these characters need to be presented as complex humans or this show will be a colossal, boring failure. And in that context, I welcome all kinds of backstories that flesh these people out (talking about just the Elendil concern, not the Galadriel plot, which I’ll judge when I see it). This show will (and should) have a lot of conversations in it. And without inventing a lot of interpersonal nuance, these people aren’t going to have anything interesting to talk about.

And for me, if it looks and sounds like Tolkien, I’ll accept a lot of story changes. Telling written stories in visual form, and doing it well (rather then simply treating it as a filmed play) requires significant transformation to the visual language of cinema. And so far, I like what I see.
Last edited by Stranger Wings on Sat Aug 06, 2022 1:54 am, edited 2 times in total.
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Re: Lord of the Rings series!?

Post by Voronwë the Faithful »

I mostly agree with you, though I'm too attached to what Tolkien wrote to not be disturbed by things that directly contradict what he wrote (as opposed to filling in the spaces that he left). I'm also puzzled by some of their naming decisions, particularly using the name Elanor, since of all the hobbitty names, it is the one name that we know has never been used in earlier times based on Sam's conversation with Frodo about choosing the name. But that is a minor point.

Meanwhile, I think SW will agree with me that this is actually good news.

Peter Jackson Says He Was Snubbed by ‘Rings of Power’ After Being Asked to Work on Show
Appearing on The Hollywood Reporter’s Awards Chatter podcast, Jackson revealed that he was asked to participate in the show and was open to the idea. But when he asked Amazon to send him the scripts, they never got back to him.

“They asked me if I wanted to [be] involved – [writer-producer Fran Walsh] and I – and I said, ‘That’s an impossible question to answer without seeing a script,’” Jackson said. “So they said, ‘As soon as we get the first couple scripts, we’ll send them to you.’ And the scripts never showed up. That’s the last thing I heard, which is fine. No complaints at all.”

In a statement provided to THR, Amazon responded to Jackson’s comments by citing an “obligation” to differentiate themselves from Jackson’s films. IndieWire has reached out to the series’ reps for additional comment.

“In pursuing the rights for our show, we were obligated to keep the series distinct and separate from the films,” a spokesperson for the company said. “We have the utmost respect for Peter Jackson and ‘The Lord of The Rings’ films and are thrilled that he is looking forward to watching ‘The Rings of Power.’”
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