Trump's America

[Voronwë the Faithful]

Sorry to bring this thread back up, but clear it is where this should go. The headline says it all.

Fiona Hill says 'quite a few people' in the Trump administration obsessed over power like Gollum was with the ring from 'The Lord of the Rings'

[RoseMorninStar]

Sorry to bring this thread back up, but clear it is where this should go. The headline says it all.

Fiona Hill says 'quite a few people' in the Trump administration obsessed over power like Gollum was with the ring from 'The Lord of the Rings'

I adore Fiona Hill and her astute wisdom but this is not 'news' for anyone who has been paying any attention at all. I can appreciate the LotR reference however. She's welcome here any time (imo).

[RoseMorninStar]

From an interview article in the NYT on Fiona Hill:

Of her experience trying to steer policy during her two years in the Trump White House, Hill said: “It was extraordinarily difficult. Certainly, that was the case for those of us who were serving in the administration with the hopes of pushing back against the Russians, to make sure that their intervention in 2016 didn’t happen again. And along the way, some people kind of lost their sense of self.”

With a flash of a smile, she said: “We used to have this running shtick in our office at the N.S.C. As a kid, I was a great fan of Tolkien and ‘Lord of the Rings.’ So, in the Trump administration, we’d talk about the ring, and the fear of becoming Gollum” — the character deformed by his attachment to the powerful treasure — “obsessing over ‘my precious,’ the excitement and the power of being in the White House. And I did see a lot of people slipping into that.” When I asked Hill whom she saw as the Gollums in the Trump White House, she replied crisply: “The ones who wouldn’t testify in his impeachment hearing. Quite a few people, in other words.”

What is this 'as a kid' stuff??

[Voronwë the Faithful]

I removed some posts from this thread about a former poster to Nan Elmoth. It is not an appropriate subject for this forum (or really at all).

[N.E. Brigand]

NYT:

The new CIA Director: “As a clandestine officer at the [CIA] in 2002, Gina Haspel oversaw the torture of two terrorism suspects and later took part in an order to destroy videotapes documenting their brutal interrogations at a secret prison in Thailand.” https://t.co/IP9wr6HdRH

Although I don't know what other choices were available.

Since this thread was updated just this month, I'll post here rather than looking for something from the prior decade, to note this new Reuters article:

Ex-CIA Agent Says She Got 'Bloodied' In Tangled U.S. War On Al-Qaeda

The headline was clearly written for irony: the former CIA agent in question, Alfreda Scheuer, means that her good name was damaged when she was referred to as the "Queen of Torture" in a news article based on a Senate report on the Bush administration's so-called "enhanced interrogation" program. (I would say that it was her victims who were "bloodied.") She says that it was sexist to call her out in that way, especially since she wasn't actually the one imposing the punishments as the interrogations were conducted. She was just the one asking the questions. Now retired from government work, she works as a life and beauty coach, she's legally not allowed to talk about specific cases, and even in general terms she says she doesn't want to "relitigate" the past.

When asked specifically about a case of "extraordinary rendition" (the CIA term for kidnapping) in which a German man, the subject of mistaken identity, was arrested in the Balkans and sent to Afghanistan where the CIA tortured him long after it should have been clear they had the wrong guy (which doesn't mean they should have tortured him even if he was the right guy) -- and per the Senate report, "she advocated strongly for his detention" -- she says: "I do just want to communicate that I don't have any regrets."

In my opinion, one of Barack Obama's biggest mistakes was deciding the U.S. would "move on" from the Bush/Cheney torture program (which ended in 2007) and not punish the evildoers responsible for such abominations.

[N.E. Brigand]

At the time, I agreed with Obama's decision not to try to seek prosecutions of Bush administration officials for the so-called enhanced interrogation program. I have since re-thought that. But Trump (and Giuliani, and others) are guilty of much more clear-cut crimes than the Bush administration officials. I'm not going to comment on the pardon and resignation issues because it just too much of a wild card, but I don't think that Cyrus Vance is going to give up on prosecuting the Trump Crime Family™.

As it turns out, Vance didn't give up, but his successor apparently did.

[N.E. Brigand]

Just had a thought - if Biden wins, what are the chances Trump actually sticks around until Jan 20? I wonder if he'd just leave.

[snip]

Trump faces legal jeopardy once he's no longer president and protected by his handpicked attorney general and the Dept. of Justice's internal rule that forbids prosecution of a sitting president. Just for starters, Robert Mueller made a very compelling case that Trump can be prosecuted after his presidency for obstruction of justice, and Bill Barr's determination otherwise goes out the window when Sally Yates or Doug Jones or whoever becomes the attorney general. And that's really just the tip of the iceberg.

Accordingly, as I've said before, I think he waits as long as possible before resigning, and he spends the time between now and January 19 wreaking as much havoc as he can so that Biden inherits the worst mess possible (has he fired Wray and Haspel and Esper yet? nothing like decapitating our defense, intelligence, and law enforcement agencies for a few months), and then at the end, he'll pardon his children (and son-in-law) and closest associates for any unspecified federal crimes they might have committed in the past five years (or however long is needed to get them past the statutes of limitation) before resigning, and then Pence (who will probably be pardoned by Trump just in case) will be president for one day, and he will pardon Trump. ....

So I'm totally serious when I say he might flee the country. That way he avoids state prosecutions (and if Pence is unwilling to debase himself, then Trump would still be subject to federal prosecution). If he does it before he resigns -- say he takes an "official" trip to Dubai and then announces that he can't return to the U.S. because of the "unfair Democratic prosecutors" -- will the United Arab Emirates try to keep Air Force One?

[snip]

Boy was I wrong. While it's still possible that Donald Trump will be prosecuted (as he certainly should be, for multiple crimes), it probably will essentially be due to the fact that he didn't resign, i.e., for what he did to attempt to stay in office.

But it appears that the Department of Justice will not be prosecuting Trump for the multiple instances of obstruction of justice detailed in Robert Mueller's report -- perhaps because, as some have speculated, William Barr did too much to undermine any such cases -- although there is still plenty of time before the statutes of limitations some on Trump's actions runs out.

While Trump never did try to flee the country, I will note that his one-time campaign manager, Paul Manafort, was prevented last month from boarding a plane bound for the United Arab Emirates.

[elengil]

Live in approx 4 hours: Jan. 6 committee reveals findings from attack on U.S. Capitol

[Sunsilver]

The dumbing down of America - this is the opening paragraph for Ron DeSantis's History of the White World, now taught in all Florida schools from preK to PhD level at select Florida universities

[Jude]

The geek gods - is he referring to Frelga, Alatar, Dave_LF, Griffon, and me?

[Sunsilver]

LOL!!

Hey, how 'bout those Christians that were enslaved by the Egyptians back in the B.C. era?
Uh, remind me what B.C. stands for... I forget!

[RoseMorninStar]

The geek gods - is he referring to Frelga, Alatar, Dave_LF, Griffon, and me?

[Dave_LF]

I am simultaneously honored and offended, which I suppose is how most gods feel most of the time.

And without doing any research, I have to say I feel pretty confident the thing is a joke/hoax.

[Sunsilver]

Oookay, I should have known better than to take this at face value without checking...sorry!

Anyway, good for a laugh, that's for sure!

[Dave_LF]

I mean I could be wrong! It wouldn't be the first time in recent history I mistook reality for parody. But the smell is off.

[Sunsilver]

No, you're right Dave. There's no such book, though he did write one:

https://www.amazon.com/Ron-DeSantis/e/B ... scns_share

I have posted in the thread where I got the original picture/meme from, asking where it REALLY came from. I'll let you know if I get an answer.

[Sunsilver]

I subscribe to an e-book service that offers books for a much reduced price. One of today's offerings is a history of Mar-a-Lago. You can read a preview of the book here:

It's quite interesting. A definitive quote:

[elengil]

https://gizmodo.com/donald-trump-homela ... 1849718673

Homeland Security Admits It Tried to Manufacture Fake Terrorists for Trump

[Sunsilver]

And now we know why ANTIFA was getting such bad press when there really IS no central organization with that name.

Antifa has no official national leadership, though followers have organized themselves into small, local cells that sometimes coordinate with other movements, such as Black Lives Matter. Some self-described antifa adherents have organized to confront Patriot Prayer, the Proud Boys, and other far-right groups during public demonstrations. Some of those rallies have devolved into violence.

https://www.cbsnews.com/news/what-is-antifa/

From elengil's link - I'd heard about this happening and now I know why:

Reports began surfacing, meanwhile, of protesters being abducted near demonstrations by men jumping out of unmarked vans in military fatigues. After widely circulated footage confirmed the accounts, DHS acknowledged the abductions, as well as the fact that agents had taken intentional steps to ensure their identities remained secret.

Also this:

Antifa has earned its reputation for sporadic violence. But many other rumors about antifa have been spun from whole cloth, sometimes by people later identified as right-wing extremists. In June 2020, Twitter shut down multiple fake antifa accounts that were inciting violence against white suburbs; subsequent investigations tracked the accounts to Identity Evropa, a white supremacist organization.

That probably explains why this guy was identified as an ANTIFA member during the Jan. 6 riots, when he is actually the leader of a Neo-Nazi group! https://phillyantifa.org/keystone-unite ... ankersley/

Here's a picture of him and his buddies on Jan. 6: viewtopic.php?p=375841&hilit=ANTIFA#p375841

Edit: is there a list somewhere of those who have been charged for their part in the Jan. 6 riot? I know the Q-anon shaman was sentenced, but would like to know about the others in this photo. Given Tankersley's background, I hope they threw the book at him!

[Frelga]

The geek gods - is he referring to Frelga, Alatar, Dave_LF, Griffon, and me?

Beginning to feel like an Elder God these days.