2016 United States Election

[Cerin]

I don't know; would Clinton be hated more than her husband was? More than Obama? And Rubio vs. Bush seem no worse than a wash either, though it would obviously depend on what he did in office. And even Trump's crazy could turn out to be like a fox.

I tend to agree. The hate is there, ready to attach to anyone. I believe it's the deep divide, purposefully engineered and meticulously maintained over decades in pursuit of particular political goals, that manifests in the hatred. And those efforts have come to spectacular fruition.

[yovargas]

So it's probably fair to say at this point that whichever candidate each party picks, they will probably be hated/feared by the "other side" more than almost any candidate in US history causing our country to become even more profoundly divided than it already is, wouldn't you say?

I don't know; would Clinton be hated more than her husband was? More than Obama? And Rubio vs. Bush seem no worse than a wash either, though it would obviously depend on what he did in office. And even Trump's crazy could turn out to be like a fox.

Considering that not even the left is particularly enthusiastic about Hillary, that a fair few on the left would say they actively dislike her, than how much must the actual right dislike her? I'd say yes, she would be more hated than Bill or Obama, who were at least decently well-liked in the center/left.

I'll give you Rubio. He'd probably be hate less than Bush, I'd guess, just cuz Bush was thought of as actively dumb by many people. But does Rubio still have an actual chance?

[Dave_LF]

Whether Rubio has a chance depends on how long Kasich and Cruz hold out. He could still beat Trump in a one-on-one, but the more primaries Trump wins while he's waiting for that to happen, the more "momentum" there is to overcome.

[Inanna]

There was a recent Gallup poll - most disliked candidate: Trump. Second: Hillary. Both of them were also the most "known" of all candidates....

So that poll is as much indicative of familiarity=dislike as it is an indication of the polarity of the American population.

But yes, I agree that we didn't see "dislike" being discussed in the election in 2008 or 2012. In 2008, we had "terrorist" being banded about.


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[Voronwë the Faithful]

David Duke: Voting against Trump is 'treason to your heritage'

[Frelga]

I don't know if it's the case of "tell me who your friends are and I'll tell you who you are" or "with friends like these who needs enemies".

[Voronwë the Faithful]

I think in this case it is more the former than the latter.

[Inanna]

Was David duke ever jailed? I
Mean it's clearly written there - grand wizard of KKK.


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Please bear with my typos & grammar mistakes. Sent from my iPhone - Palantirs make mistakes too.

[Voronwë the Faithful]

Inanna, being a member of the KKK is not grounds to jail someone; that would violate the constitutional protection of freedom of association. You have to be convicted of engaging in some kind of criminal behavior in order to be jailed.

I didn't see the GOP debate last night, but apparently both Rubio and Cruz finally went hard after Trump. I doubt it will make a scintilla of difference. And regarding the tax return issue that got raised, Trump "explained" that he can't release his tax returns because he is in the middle of a major multi-year audit. First of all, there is no reason why that should prevent him from making the returns public. Secondly, just the fact that he is in the middle of a major multi-year audit should raise all kinds of flags. Thirdly, I doubt that will make a scintilla of difference either. We'll start to know on Tuesday, March 1, "Super Tuesday," the day that has the most delegates at stake in the primary season.

[Cenedril_Gildinaur]

So it's probably fair to say at this point that whichever candidate each party picks, they will probably be hated/feared by the "other side" more than almost any candidate in US history causing our country to become even more profoundly divided than it already is, wouldn't you say?

I don't know; would Clinton be hated more than her husband was? More than Obama? And Rubio vs. Bush seem no worse than a wash either, though it would obviously depend on what he did in office. And even Trump's crazy could turn out to be like a fox.

Considering that she has far less charisma than her husband, and far less than Obama, yes. She's personally just a nasty person and isn't able to present herself otherwise without obvious effort leaving her looking completely artificial.

One of the appealing traits of Bernie is that he is very sincere. He says what he means, he means what he says, and I can respect that even when I disagree with what he says. Trump is like that to a lesser but crazier extent.

[CosmicBob]

And regarding the tax return issue that got raised, Trump "explained" that he can't release his tax returns because he is in the middle of a major multi-year audit. First of all, there is no reason why that should prevent him from making the returns public. Secondly, just the fact that he is in the middle of a major multi-year audit should raise all kinds of flags.

Instead of flags, it may in fact garner him some sympathy, since his supporters are probably VERY anti-IRS.

But, we shall see. I did not watch it either.

[Voronwë the Faithful]

Good point, CB.

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[Voronwë the Faithful]

This article comes very close to capturing my feelings about the Democratic race (even though I'm not a woman).

http://www.slate.com/articles/double_x/ ... nders.html

[yovargas]

That was a thoroughly uninspiring endorsement.

[Voronwë the Faithful]

Yup. Clinton is a pretty uninspiring candidate. Yet clearly (to me, I make no claim to speak for anyone else) the best person for the job at this time.

I liked that the article painted an unvarnished portrait of Clinton, rather than trying to whitewash are as the type of charismatic leader that she isn't. But she also is not the person that others have tried to paint her as for most of the time that she has been in the public eye, neither the dangerous radical feminist that right-wing groups for so long tried to portray or as, nor the sell-out corporatist that many Sanders supporters currently call her (though she is a little of both, among many other things). What she is more than anything else is a highly detail-oriented policy wonk who has long been deeply committed to making things better for people, particularly women and children, and who has devoted the time and effort to develop thorough plans to do so. I think she is both more likely to get elected than Sanders (though I do go back and forth about who would be a more effective candidate against Trump), and more likely to actually get things that I would like to see accomplished get accomplished than he would be.

[axordil]

I'm just so tired of pre-emptive compromising.

[Voronwë the Faithful]

Meanwhile, in the "one bully deserves another" department:

Chris Christie Endorses Donald Trump

[tinwë]

Good lord, what the hell is Christie thinking of? Tell me this isn’t happening?

I tend to agree with you Voronwë, and with what the (previous) article says. It IS hard to like Clinton - she is a superbly unlikable person, lacking the warmth of personality her husband had in abundance, she comes across as phony, pandering, calculating and opportunistic. And she may in fact be all of those things, but I am still supportive of her because I do believe she is the most qualified and capable of getting things done. Unfortunately the Trump factor is changing things in ways that no one could have seen.

I think the Republicans only have one chance of stopping Trump at this point, and that is to get all but one of the other candidates to drop out, and that one needs to be Rubio, especially since some social-conservative/evangelical voters (the very people Cruz has been courting) appear to have gravitated towards Trump (against all conceivable odds) in the Nevada caucus. As long as the non-Trump vote is being split among several candidates, Trump will continue to win and will indeed be unstoppable. And the only one who I think has any real chance against him at this point is Rubio. They really, really need to do this now!

Why does it matter to me that the Republicans not nominate Trump? Not too long ago many Democrats laughingly welcomed a Trump nomination on the Rep’s side, because we were convinced he would be the easiest one to beat. I’m not so certain anymore, and in fact of the two Democratic candidates I actually believe that Clinton stands the least chance of beating a Trump candidacy.

Trumps appeal, as far as I can see, is that he is the anti-politician candidate. He is everything that politicians are not, and he is nothing that politicians are. And that is appealing to many people today, I believe, on both sides of the isle. Hillary, on the other hand, is the living, breathing, walking incarnation of Politician, she is in every way conceivable a political creature. That is not necessarily a bad thing. Bill, of course, was also the consummate politician, and was his was his political skills that gave us the first balanced budget in years and eight years of peace and prosperity. But our government has been so dysfunctional for so long now that people just instinctively associate “political” with evil and corrupt.

So Hillary must be evil and corrupt. And Trump may be evil and corrupt in his own way, but at least he is not those things in a political way, and political corruption is seen as the worst form.

I am honestly starting to believe at this point that Sanders would stand a better chance in the general election against Trump, just because his integrity is less questioned than Hillary’s is, and he is oddly seen as the Democratic version of Trump in the sense that he speaks his mind without concern for the consequences. At the same time I think that Sanders would be trounced by Rubio in the general election, whereas Hillary would most likely win, being the better of the two politicians.

I think it is still very likely that Hillary will win the nomination, in which case I can only hope she is not running against Trump. Which is why I really, really hope the Republicans can pull it together and get Cruz, Kasich and Carson out of the way so Rubio can finally gain the traction against Trump. Because the thought of a Trump presidency is just about one of the most depressing things I can think of.

[CosmicBob]

Meanwhile, in the "one bully deserves another" department:

Chris Christie Endorses Donald Trump

Christie must REALLY hate Rubio to do this. And he's going to cheese off vast swaths of the Republican establishment. He may be angling for a VP nod.

[JewelSong]

Fascinating.


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