2016 United States Election

[River]

Bummer. I want one.

[Alatar]

What happens is that it leaves people like me not voting at all. I can't possibly vote for the Democratic nominee

Out if curiosity, why? Is it a knee-jerk thing because you're a republican, or is there something that she stands for which you simply can't abide?

[Primula Baggins]

I doubt that Anthy has a single opinion that could be characterized as "knee-jerk."

[Alatar]

I have no idea to be honest, but I haven't seen any explanation for why Hillary (or is it just any Democrat) can't be voted for?

[Primula Baggins]

Plenty of people dislike and/or distrust Clinton, and there are defensible reasons for doing so. I support her and will vote for her, but I can see valid reasons for not doing so.

For me, preventing the election of Donald Trump is paramount, and I think Clinton will be a competent and effective Democratic president.

[yovargas]

Out if curiosity, why? Is it a knee-jerk thing because you're a republican, or is there something that she stands for which you simply can't abide?

If Anth considers herself a Republican, I'd imagine she would simply disagree with giant chunks of the Democratic platform. (Economic stuff in particular, I'd wager.)

[anthriel]

What happens is that it leaves people like me not voting at all. I can't possibly vote for the Democratic nominee

Out if curiosity, why? Is it a knee-jerk thing because you're a republican, or is there something that she stands for which you simply can't abide?

Well, that reaction does sadden me a bit... please read my disclaimer at the bottom of this post. This is *ME* you are talking to, here! I honestly am not a particularly good team player when it comes to politics. Most of my honest feelings rain down on both party's "platforms" equally.

Remember that I was an Obama fangirl? Anyone remember that? And I have come to realize that Bill Clinton was probably our best president in my lifetime, even though I didn't vote for him. (Proof's in the puddin', so very often.)

However, before y'all start thinking I really am a closet Democrat, I liked Bush Sr. quite a bit, and I almost certainly like more things about Bush Jr. than the rest of y'all do. I hope that gives me enough points in the "non-knee jerk Republican" category to dampen that sort of reaction from my friends (!) in the future.

<takes a minute to shake off sad>



As to Hillary: certainly, on paper, she is the more sane candidate. Having sanity as the criteria and having Donald Trump as your adversary makes it easy to win this particular category. She's certainly been in the "game" longer, and as a long-term gamer, she's going to have a lot of experience governing. The fact that she is a woman, and a fairly normal-looking woman at that, is extra points from me. It really is time for gender to not be a barrier here, and the ageism apparent in this election... a misogynistic flavor of ageism, at that... just makes my "red" hair curl. Like the Donald is such a looker.




But I will be voting for River.

[JewelSong]

The GOP has moved so far to the Extreme Right that Hillary seems to represent what the GOP *used to* stand for and Bernie is more like a good old-fashioned Democrat. Or at least, what a Democrat *used to* be. I dislike Hillary; she's a hawk (IMHO) and I think she'd steamroll over anyone to get what she wanted. But...I do NOT think she will ruin the country and she does have experience in dealing with other leaders without alienating them.

Trump, on the other hand, seems to revel in insulting everyone. I sincerely fear for the future of the USA should he get elected.

So, I will vote for Hillary, because she is the best choice of the two primary candidates. The fact that I would likely vote for my table lamp over Trump is moot.


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[Cerin]

I can't possibly vote for the Democratic nominee, <snip?

I also am guilty of interpreting this the wrong way, due to careless reading. Going back, I see it is quite clear in context what you meant. But if the mind snags on this phrase alone, one ends up thinking you're saying you can't vote for a Democrat. It (my initial interpretation) reminded me of something my grandmother (in Republican rural Wisconsin) once said to me: 'Honey, I'm a Republican. I can't help it.'

[RoseMorninStar]

Rural Wisconsin. Ah yeah. Life in my corner of political reality.

I have always considered myself 'middle of the road' and not particularly political (at all) until the events after 9-11 and the run-up to the Iraq war. I believe I am fairly middle of the road, probably a little more fiscally conservative and a little more socially liberal than true middle, but the middle has shifted SO far right that I am probably now considered to be in the 'flaming liberal' category. :o

[anthriel]

I can't possibly vote for the Democratic nominee, <snip?

I also am guilty of interpreting this the wrong way, due to careless reading. Going back, I see it is quite clear in context what you meant. But if the mind snags on this phrase alone, one ends up thinking you're saying you can't vote for a Democrat. It (my initial interpretation) reminded me of something my grandmother (in Republican rural Wisconsin) once said to me: 'Honey, I'm a Republican. I can't help it.'

I don't even think as a stand-alone phrase this is misleading, since I would argue that "I can't possibly vote for the Democratic nominee", is quite different from "I can't possibly vote for any Democratic nominee", or "I can't possibly vote for a Democratic nominee", which is apparently how you first read it. Also, the next phrase in that same sentence has the same construct for "the Republican nominee". Parallel constructs and all that. However, anyone can be reading more quickly than accurate interpretation will allow!

As for Alatar, I don't believe he misunderstood my sentence. In his <ahem> knee-jerk response to my post, he did refer to "her" as the object of my objection. It was his next post that finished off the thought that perhaps I meant I wouldn't vote for "any" Democrat.

Here's a question for y'all, since most of you who typically post here (AFAIK) are liberals. Have any of you voted for a Republican candidate for any significant office recently? Do you pretty much stick to your party's candidates? Or am I actually quite unusual here for (freely, with almost dizzying abandon skipping across party lines?

[Jude]

I zip across party lines and re-evaluate my stance at every election.

But I've never voted for a Republican candidate because they don't exist in Canada

[anthriel]

I zip across party lines and re-evaluate my stance at every election.

But I've never voted for a Republican candidate because they don't exist in Canada

Doggonit, and I can't even go back and edit that to fix it because I don't do that anymore. So sorry to our non-USA friends for my myopic faux-pas!

[Voronwë the Faithful]

Well, I've never voted for a Republican nominee but I have voted for numerous candidates who were not Democrats (mostly Green candidates). And there are certainly Republican candidates that I know of in the past that I would have voted for had I been eligible to vote in those elections (many of whom were the more liberal candidates in the elections they were running in, like Jacob Javits, the former Senator from my native New York). I would have voted for John Anderson (a former Republican running as an independent) in the 1980 presidential election if I had been a year old [edit: a year older]and therefore eligible. But the Republican party has moved so far to the right that there is not a single Republican that I know in any office or running for any office that comes even close to matching my views.

As for Hillary Clinton, I have decidedly mixed feelings about her. She certainly is more hawkish than I would like (though not nearly as much so as some people seem to think), and much more emboldened to moneyed interests than I would like, and much more politically opportunistic than I would like. But she also has quietly done a lot of very good, compassionate things in her career that most people don't know about, and has been a pioneer for children's rights, a topic that gets little attention, as well as women's rights. And she is very, very smart, and good at working the system, which is all to the good. If nothing else, she will appoint supreme court justices that are likely to rule in a way that I would agree with.
Honestly, that is probably the most impactful thing that the president that we are about to elect will do.

Of the other candidates, the Libertarian candidate, Gary Johnson is someone who is a former Republican that I have a considerable amount of agreement with on a lot of issues, certainly much more than any of the 834 candidates that ran for the GOP nomination (okay, I think it was only 18). But if it were a contest between him and Clinton, I would probably still vote for her, and in the current circumstances, I would consider any vote for anyone other than Clinton a de facto vote for Trump, which I could not possibly consider. I think he is the scariest thing to happen to America in a long time.

[Primula Baggins]

I have voted for Republican candidates and will again. This tends to happen in races that are closer to home, where I know more about the candidates personally and where it is quite possible that the Democratic candidate may be too far "out there" for me, or may be less competent/experienced.

As the stakes get higher, I get more partisan. I'm frustrated by the consequences of Republican control of the Senate under current Republican leadership, for example, and would be unlikely to use my vote to perpetuate that, unless the Democratic candidate getting elected would be worse. As for the presidency, if I were Republican, I would be in the never-Trump camp, like many Republicans, so my vote against Trump will actually be a little bit bipartisan. . . .

And, what Voronwë said. And I did vote for John Anderson in 1976. Was old enough by 5 days, IIRC.

[Voronwë the Faithful]

I have voted for Republican candidates and will again. This tends to happen in races that are closer to home, where I know more about the candidates personally and where it is quite possible that the Democratic candidate may be too far "out there" for me, or may be less competent/experienced.

Local elections in Santa Cruz County are non-partisan (no party affiliations), which I love.

[axordil]

You mean in 1980, Prim. Trust me, I voted for Anderson, too--my first Presidential election. I never voted for Reagan, but I did vote GOP in a number of specific cases, back when I was pretty apolitical: Jack Danforth for the Senate (before the Thomas fiasco) and Kit Bond (when he was an honest-to-goodness outsider candidate for governor) come to mind. I think I started drifting left as the GOP started drifting right, especially in these parts...I can't imagine voting GOP again in my lifetime, though, even locally. From the allegedly nonpartisan school board level on up, the party has become antithetical to my worldview.

[RoseMorninStar]

Up until about.. oh, 12 years ago (?) I never considered party at all,;I always voted based on the candidates/issues. I've voted Republican, Democrat, & 3rd party. I pretty much agree with what Voronwë said. I think I also voted for Anderson in my first election. I once considered voting for McCain until he chose Sarah Palin as a running mate. That did him in for me.

There are Republicans I admire & would vote for, for example, if Colin Powell had run I would have definitely given him consideration. There are too many extremists and wing nuts running. I don't feel comfortable with extremists. I don't appreciate the lack of cooperation, coordination, or compromise. The 'my way or the highway'. We are supposed to be putting country first.. and politicians are supposed to be servants of ALL of the citizens.

[Primula Baggins]

Yeah, 1980. I voted for Carter in '76.

While it's true that the Republican Party has moved very far right from where it was the first time I voted, Oregon has moved left in terms of the majority of voters. A Republican running in my city or county has little chance if he's far right.

I regret the loss of a political landscape that produced our great Republican governor Tom McCall, or our great Republican senator Mark Hatfield. Both of whom I would proudly have voted for.

[Cerin]

I don't even think as a stand-alone phrase this is misleading,

It is not misleading; in my case, it was purely a matter of careless reading.