Galadriel: telepathy or memory?

[Voronwë the Faithful]

In DoS, of course, as the company is preparing to enter Gandalf appears to be receiving a message from Galadriel, which convinces him to leave the company and investigate the High Fells. But is this a new telepathic message, or is Gandalf simply (mis?)remembering what Galadriel had said at Rivendell.

In AUJ, Galadriel says: “Something moves in the shadows, unseen, hidden from our sight. It will not show itself, not yet. But every day it grows in strength. You must be careful.”

In DoS, she says: "Something moves in the shadows, unseen, hidden from our sight. Every day it grows in strength. Beware the Necromancer. He is not what he seems.”

It seems to close to be a coincidence, yet it is obviously not the same. So which is it?

[kzer_za]

There's something similar in FotR:

Gandalf in Moria - "All we have to decide is what to do with the time that is given to us."
Frodo's remembrance at Parth Galen - "All you have to decide is what to do with the time that is given to you."

[Passdagas the Brown]

I always interpreted this as a memory, and don't understand why the seemingly prevalent view is that she is communicating with Gandalf telepathically.

I do think that it's one of the clumsier moments in the film.

[Voronwë the Faithful]

k_z, good point. I had forgotten that that line was slightly different.

PtB, I agree that it is clumsy, though not as clumsy as it would be if it was in fact a telepathic communication.

[Smaug's voice]

I always interpreted this as a memory, and don't understand
why the seemingly prevalent views is that she is communicating with
Gandalf telepathetically.

Yes. And I have the same view on the Elrond-Galadriel conversation in TTT too.
The only two instances of telepathic Galadriel are in the White council and in Lórien.

[Voronwë the Faithful]

Really? I've never considered the Galadriel/Elrond conversation in TTT anything other than a telepathic message. Unlike in DoS, there is no previous scene to relate it back to. I'm not sure on what basis it could be considered a memory. Educate me!

Edit to add: Thinking about it more, she refers to events that seem to be happening contemporaneously, referring the "young Captain of Gondor" (Faramir) and his threat to take the Ring from Frodo. How could that be a memory?

[Passdagas the Brown]

Really? I've never considered the Galadriel/Elrond conversation in TTT anything other than a telepathic message. Unlike in DoS, there is no previous scene to relate it back to. I'm not sure on what basis it could be considered a memory. Educate me!

Edit to add: Thinking about it more, she refers to events that seem to be happening contemporaneously, referring the "young Captain of Gondor" (Faramir) and his threat to take the Ring from Frodo. How could that be a memory?

Agreed that it couldn't possibly be a memory.

Incidentally, that's one of the most awful parts of that film, IMO. How in blazes does Galadriel know all that stuff, why is she narrating it to Elrond, how many times is she going to slowly and melodramatically say "the wooooorld of men shaaall faaall," and "the daaarkness in the eaaast is grooooowing," and "the quest iiis in daaanger" or whatever it is she says! A shame, because Blanchett is a terrific actress.

That sort of doom and gloom over-narration by characters who shouldn't have the information that they are narrating is one of a number of reasons why I prefer the Hobbit films to LOTR. Sure, Balin and Gandalf still get stuck with a few clunkers like that in TH, but they are fewer, more logical (eg. it makes sense that Balin knows the things he talks about) and less drawn out.

[Elentári]

Firstly, agreed that the scene on the edge of Mirkwood is nothing more than a memory, clumsily handled, perhaps another example of ambiguoity from Jackson trying to make Galadriel's abilities seem more than they are, like with the "disappearing act" in AUJ.

Secondly, the "telepathy" scene in TTT I think was probably a result of the aborted visit of Elrond and Arwen to Lothlórien. I guess we are meant to assume Galadriel is seeing all these current events by using her mirror like a palantír, even though we know it doesn't work like that...

[yovargas]

even though we know it doesn't work like that...

Who is "we"?

[Dave_LF]

When the thing began I interpreted it as a memory, but toward the end she said a couple things very specific to Gandalf's current situation and location that made me rethink that. I can't remember the quote, though, so that's about all I can say for the time being.

[Voronwë the Faithful]

In addition to the line that I quoted above, she says "“If our enemy has returned, we must know. Go to the tombs in the mountains.” I agree that doesn't seem like a memory.

[Elentári]

even though we know it doesn't work like that...

Who is "we"?

Anyone who reads the book and sees that Tolkein tells us that the mirror shows "things that were, and things that are, and things that yet may be." Event seen in it don't always come to pass. In other words, it's not like a straight forward seeing-stone.

[yovargas]

Yeah, but this ain't the book.

I'm totally okay with Galadriel having this kind of sight and power in movie-verse. The bit at Mirkwood did feel poorly executed, though. It felt awkward and confusing.

[Voronwë the Faithful]

But there is also this:

`Many things I can command the Mirror to reveal,' she answered, `and to some I can show what they desire to see

So I really don't think that it is a stretch to suppose that she could see what is going on in Ithilien by commanding the Mirror to reveal what is happening with Frodo.

[Smaug's voice]

Really? I've never considered the Galadriel/Elrond conversation in TTT anything other than a telepathic message. Unlike in DoS, there is no previous scene to relate it back to. I'm not sure on what basis it could be considered a memory. Educate me!

I didn't say it can be considered a memory, which as you point out are contemporary events that Galadriel mentions. But I just don't see it as telepathy.
For one, whenever Galadriel is speaking telepathetically, she is doing so by a simple exchange of thoughts - she does not talk when telepathetically speaking. Think of all the other *telepathic* scenes. Lórien. G giving Frodo support in Cirith Ungol. the White Council. In each case, her lips are closed. Her mind speaks.
But in the TTT-scene she is speaking openly and actively. I am sure I won't be able to express with my limited vocabulary what I really think it is, but not once did I think of it as telepathy.
Hmmm, perhaps Galadriel giving Elrond advice through day-dreams?

[Smaug's voice]

Sure, Balin and Gandalf still get stuck with a few clunkers like that in TH, but they are fewer, more logical (eg. it makes sense that Balin knows the things he talks about) and less drawn out.

So tell me, how is Balin knowing about Azog's mortality status logical?

[Smaug's voice]

I do not get why is it against canon to have Galadriel conversing telepathetically.

From the passage in LOTR where she tests the Fellowship.

And with that word she held them with her eyes, and in silence looked searchingly at each of them in turn. None save Legolas and Aragorn could long endure her glance. Sam quickly blushed and hung his head.
At length the Lady Galadriel released them from her eyes, and she smiled. 'Do not let your hearts be troubled,' she said. 'Tonight you shall sleep in peace.' Then they sighed and felt suddenly weary, as those who have been questioned long and deeply, though no words had been spoken openly.

And even long-distance telepathy.

I say to you, Frodo, that even as I speak to you, I perceive the Dark Lord and know his mind, or all of his mind that concerns the Elves. And he gropes ever to see me and my thought. But still the door is closed!

So how does Galadriel "know Sauron's mind" if she is neither seeing things telepathetically (notice, Sauron gropes to see her thoughts) nor is she using her mirror?

ETA: This same discussion is going on over TORC, on Galadriel's telekinetic powers.

[Voronwë the Faithful]

Who has said anything about being against canon?

[Smaug's voice]

Who has said anything about being against canon?

Ah, I am not pointing anyone here. But elsewhere, I have seen many purists mocking Galadriel's telekinetic powers in the films.

[narya]

Anyone who reads the book and sees that Tolkein tells us that the mirror shows "things that were, and things that are, and things that yet may be." Event seen in it don't always come to pass. In other words, it's not like a straight forward seeing-stone.

Palantíri aren't straight forward, either.