Bofur and Pigs and Frodo and Sam, etc.

Thu Jan 23, 2014 12:50 am

Should I add a poll to the thread asking whether people prefer British or American style bacon?

Post by **anthriel** » Thu Jan 23, 2014 1:04 am

Passdagas the Brown wrote:We're supposed to be talking about pigs here, folks. Stop Osgiliating the thread!

Hey PtB, I see what you did there. Heh. Kewl.

I like Canadian bacon, btw. Just sayin'.

Thu Jan 23, 2014 1:38 am

Maverick!

Post by **anthriel** » Thu Jan 23, 2014 3:00 am

But there is only ONE who is a danger to us all.

Post by **Passdagas the Brown** » Thu Jan 23, 2014 3:23 am

anthriel wrote:
Passdagas the Brown wrote:We're supposed to be talking about pigs here, folks. Stop Osgiliating the thread!
Hey PtB, I see what you did there. Heh. Kewl.

I like Canadian bacon, btw. Just sayin'.

Reminds me of Leslie Nielsen's response when he was asked if he ate the steak or the fish (the only two choices) in Airplane:

Yes, yes, I remember, I had lasagna.

Post by **yovargas** » Thu Jan 23, 2014 3:43 am

Osgiliath probably would have been better with more pigs.

Post by **kzer_za** » Thu Jan 23, 2014 4:01 am

Passdagas the Brown wrote:We're supposed to be talking about pigs here, folks. Stop Osgiliating the thread!

There's some good in these movies, Mr. Brown. And it's worth posting for!

Post by **narya** » Thu Jan 23, 2014 7:43 am

I must say Bofur is one of my favorites of the dwarves, pigs or no pigs.

Post by **Elentári** » Thu Jan 23, 2014 8:24 am

Talking of pigs, did anyone know whether the well-hung bacon made it into the market scene on the AUJ EE - or did he get the chop?

(For those of you who've forgotten, meet Leroy )

Post by **Teremia** » Thu Jan 23, 2014 8:43 am

Just to osgiliate the osgiliation a bit more, let me say that one of the most satisfying periods of my (long-ago) life at TORC was my work on the campaign to get osgiliation (noun) and osgiliate (verb) into everybody's general vocabulary.

Still working on the "everybody" part of the equation, but glad to see the words thriving in our fair corner of the world.

[/osgiliation]

Back to pigs now!

Post by **Pearly Di** » Thu Jan 23, 2014 2:26 pm

To return to the not-topic ...

I don't mind Faramir taking the hobbits to Osgiliath. It really is an amazing sequence, visually.

It's what happens in Osgiliath.

In the book, Frodo is the articulate, eloquent, mature one. Frodo is the hobbit who always keeps his cool when conversing with Men and Elves. Sam follows his lead, because Sam (correctly) thinks that Mr Frodo is wiser than he is.

I love Sam, btw, and don't regard him as a simpleton or a fool, and certainly not as inferior to Frodo as a character! Sam is in every way Frodo's moral and spiritual equal. But Frodo does have the greater perception. Frodo can negotiate, Sam is led by his heart. Which is not to denigrate Sam in any way, because Sam has many strengths ... which, of course, make him every bit as heroic as Frodo.

But. PJ doesn't get Frodo's heroism, which is why Frodo-fans are presented with such a hot mess of Frodo-characterisation in the films. And one prime example of this takes place in Osgiliath. What is Film Fro doing here, again? Is he OFFERING the Ring to the Nazgûl? Or is he just so overwhelmed by the Nazgûl that he is tempted to put the Ring on right there and then? I tried to put the most charitable spin on it but honestly this Frodo-fan was too busy frothing at the mouth to care ultimately which the hell it was.

Sam then emoting and Summing Everything Up with his United Nations speech did NOT improve my mood.

And that is why some - not all - of the Osgiliath sequence pains me. It's really more about Frodo than Faramir.

P.S. This is why I'm so very grateful for the BBC's 1981 radio dramatization of LotR. The relationship between Ian Holm's Frodo and Bill Nighy's Sam is perfect.

Nighy's Sam is the best ... Nighy's performance made me like Book Sam more. He's humble and earthy but no pushover.

Post by **yovargas** » Thu Jan 23, 2014 2:31 pm

Whereas I, a total Sam fanboy, am totally okay with Sam stealing Frodo's spotlight.

Thu Jan 23, 2014 2:34 pm

Yes, Nighy IS Sam. Astin is ... something else.

Post by **Pearly Di** » Thu Jan 23, 2014 2:37 pm

yovargas wrote:Whereas I, a total Sam fanboy, am totally okay with Sam stealing Frodo's spotlight.

OK, why?

I don't demand that everyone loves Frodo as much as I do.

But he is the central protagonist, after all. Yeah, I know, Sam's POV takes over after the trauma of Cirith Ungol. I don't have a problem with that: Tolkien knew what he was doing. But a part of me can't help saying that if people don't at least appreciate what Tolkien was doing with Frodo's characterisation, then they miss out on something important about LotR.

Hope that's not too confrontational,

but I do feel quite strongly about this.

Post by **Smaug's voice** » Thu Jan 23, 2014 2:38 pm

I agree that Frodo's heroism was largely sidelined mostly in TTT but that speech was NOT one of those scenes. (even if you mock it as a UN speech)

Post by **Pearly Di** » Thu Jan 23, 2014 2:40 pm

Smaug's voice wrote:I agree that Frodo's heroism was largely sidelined

P.S. Love the artwork in your sig. (Saw it on FB.

)

Post by **Smaug's voice** » Thu Jan 23, 2014 2:42 pm

Post by **yovargas** » Thu Jan 23, 2014 2:46 pm

Pearly Di wrote:OK, why?

Why don't I mind, you mean? Cuz, well, sorry to say to to a fangurl

but I never found Frodo all that interesting. I'm one of those that generally agree with the criticism that most of LOTR's characters are kinda flat and dull and I lump Frodo in with those characters.

Please don't kill me now.

Post by **Pearly Di** » Thu Jan 23, 2014 2:48 pm

Ah.

I dislike Sam's speech for the same reason Passdagas does ... I think it's sentimental. And because I think it shows that PJ really does rate Sam higher than Frodo.

Post by **Smaug's voice** » Thu Jan 23, 2014 2:53 pm