I take notes at movies all the time! I write pretty well in the dark. And I used to bring a computer in and type (with dark screen), but sometimes the clacking keyboard will annoy people. So I sat in the back.
That's my day job, you see!
Hall of Fire Reviews - Post Them Here! [SPOILERS!]
“Wilbur never forgot Charlotte. Although he loved her children and grandchildren dearly, none of the new spiders ever quite took her place in his heart. She was in a class by herself. It is not often that someone comes along who is a true friend and a good writer. Charlotte was both.” E. B. White, who must have had vison in mind. There's a reason why we kept putting the extra i in her name in our minds!
So an opportunity to see it tonight in 2D presented itself, and I took it.
If you decide to read my review, bear in mind that The Hobbit has always been easy for me to visualize as written.
Overall the film is not bad, though it departs from the tale needlessly in a number of places (just my opinion, but then I wasn't the director of this thing). Why the encounter with the trolls, including lead-up, received the make over it did is... well, again, I'm not the director.
I did not like the look of the CGI baddies. It is difficult to understand how with the advances in technology since LOTR, that somehow the creatures in the first 3 films looked more realistic.
The humour was acceptable though not Tolkien's. I liked when one of the dwarves said "I'd stick it up his Jackson" (or some such thing, can't remember what this was in reference to). I do however HATE snot and snot like effluence.
There did not seem to be as many touching moments, that is moments that stirred me, as in the previous films, though this could be an effect of time more than anything. Speaking of time, the pacing was dodgy in some places, especially the final scene.
Rivendell, moreso than Hobbiton, made me catch my breath when the party first gazes upon it. And I really liked the way they handled a couple pivitol moments with Bilbo: the first is when he is alone in his parlour the morning after, just before he runs out the door; the second is when he is deciding what to do about Gollum in his path. Granted the latter scene is more of an elaboration on an impression we've formed about the history of their encounter. But to me it was quite acceptable.
Finally (I'm sure more will come to mind later) the dwarves were handled well. We don't get to know all of them as well as some of them, but as we know, so far we've gotten to know them quite a bit more than in the book. A few of them, specifically Thorin, Kili, Fili and Ori did not read as dwarves at all. I blame all the years I spent playing RPGs. ETA: Regardless, their "race" is sort of a non-issue, I'm fine just seeing them as people who live in M-e.
... oh, before I go: When I saw Rivendell, I sorely missed Arwen. If Figwit and Galadriel could be there, why not Arwen? Gah I hope it wasn't a budget thing, that would be silly. Elrond looked great. Frodo, however, did not... he looked kind of strung out and like he phoned his part in. And finally, really this time, I noticed GDT was named as "Project Consultant" though missed if he got a writing credit.
If you decide to read my review, bear in mind that The Hobbit has always been easy for me to visualize as written.
Overall the film is not bad, though it departs from the tale needlessly in a number of places (just my opinion, but then I wasn't the director of this thing). Why the encounter with the trolls, including lead-up, received the make over it did is... well, again, I'm not the director.
I did not like the look of the CGI baddies. It is difficult to understand how with the advances in technology since LOTR, that somehow the creatures in the first 3 films looked more realistic.
The humour was acceptable though not Tolkien's. I liked when one of the dwarves said "I'd stick it up his Jackson" (or some such thing, can't remember what this was in reference to). I do however HATE snot and snot like effluence.
There did not seem to be as many touching moments, that is moments that stirred me, as in the previous films, though this could be an effect of time more than anything. Speaking of time, the pacing was dodgy in some places, especially the final scene.
Rivendell, moreso than Hobbiton, made me catch my breath when the party first gazes upon it. And I really liked the way they handled a couple pivitol moments with Bilbo: the first is when he is alone in his parlour the morning after, just before he runs out the door; the second is when he is deciding what to do about Gollum in his path. Granted the latter scene is more of an elaboration on an impression we've formed about the history of their encounter. But to me it was quite acceptable.
Finally (I'm sure more will come to mind later) the dwarves were handled well. We don't get to know all of them as well as some of them, but as we know, so far we've gotten to know them quite a bit more than in the book. A few of them, specifically Thorin, Kili, Fili and Ori did not read as dwarves at all. I blame all the years I spent playing RPGs. ETA: Regardless, their "race" is sort of a non-issue, I'm fine just seeing them as people who live in M-e.
... oh, before I go: When I saw Rivendell, I sorely missed Arwen. If Figwit and Galadriel could be there, why not Arwen? Gah I hope it wasn't a budget thing, that would be silly. Elrond looked great. Frodo, however, did not... he looked kind of strung out and like he phoned his part in. And finally, really this time, I noticed GDT was named as "Project Consultant" though missed if he got a writing credit.
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Voronwë the Faithful
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The humour was definitely not Tolkien's here:
"we'll take some Dwavish steel and stick it right up his jacksie!"
Jacksie
But I agree with many of your comments, and overall assessment, SirD. So glad you decided to view it after all.
"we'll take some Dwavish steel and stick it right up his jacksie!"
Jacksie
But I agree with many of your comments, and overall assessment, SirD. So glad you decided to view it after all.
There is magic in long-distance friendships. They let you relate to other human beings in a way that goes beyond being physically together and is often more profound.
~Diana Cortes
~Diana Cortes
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Túrin Turambar
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Interesting that it's Cockney rhyming slang, which has some authenticity I suppose. When Cockney appears in Tolkien, it's generally in the mouths of the cannon-fodder villains. The Orcs sound vaguely East London. Either way, it doesn't really seem right for a dwarf.
Fun fact on the subject of accents - Andy Serkis actually voices Gollum not too differently to how Tolkien did, although Tolkien's Gollum hisses less and sounds like he might have originally been from Wales.
Fun fact on the subject of accents - Andy Serkis actually voices Gollum not too differently to how Tolkien did, although Tolkien's Gollum hisses less and sounds like he might have originally been from Wales.
I did NOT miss Arwen. (But was delighted to see Figwit! And Galadriel, of course.)SirDennis wrote:... oh, before I go: When I saw Rivendell, I sorely missed Arwen. If Figwit and Galadriel could be there, why not Arwen? Gah I hope it wasn't a budget thing, that would be silly. .
It's not because I get all puristy about the expansion of Arwen's role. In principle, I approved of it. But Liv, to me, is by far the weakest link in PJ's very strong ensemble cast for LotR. I feel bad saying it as she took so much abuse from the fans, some of it really nasty. But I just don't rate her Arwen highly in the acting stakes, I'm afraid.
I'm delighted you enjoyed the film, SirD.
I liked it very much indeed, and am planning my third viewing this weekend!
Martin's Bilbo is an utter joy.
"Frodo undertook his quest out of love - to save the world he knew from disaster at his own expense, if he could ... "
Letter no. 246, The Collected Letters of J.R.R. Tolkien
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Letter no. 246, The Collected Letters of J.R.R. Tolkien
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What has the reaction of your non-Tolkien-geek friends been? Just curious. Most of mine really like it. A few say "it's good, but too long." One of them hated it, said it was like a rehash of LotR with no clear goal or trajectory.
Last edited by kzer_za on Mon Jan 07, 2013 4:52 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Oh, c'mon...poor Liv wasn't that bad - she didn't have much with any depth to work with, script-wise and I thought she did a credible job... Well, she looked the part, anyway!Pearly Di wrote:I did NOT miss Arwen. (But was delighted to see Figwit! And Galadriel, of course.)SirDennis wrote:... oh, before I go: When I saw Rivendell, I sorely missed Arwen. If Figwit and Galadriel could be there, why not Arwen? Gah I hope it wasn't a budget thing, that would be silly. .
It's not because I get all puristy about the expansion of Arwen's role. In principle, I approved of it. But Liv, to me, is by far the weakest link in PJ's very strong ensemble cast for LotR. I feel bad saying it as she took so much abuse from the fans, some of it really nasty. But I just don't rate her Arwen highly in the acting stakes, I'm afraid.
Oh, and I'm not sure why SirD missed her, since she was naturally in Lothlórien at this time, (PJ obviously does observe canon sometimes!
) but would suggest that Imladris came off as a little underpopulated in the glimpses we got of it - half-a-dozen warriors, some token minstrels and one right-hand man?There is magic in long-distance friendships. They let you relate to other human beings in a way that goes beyond being physically together and is often more profound.
~Diana Cortes
~Diana Cortes
I think it's pretty clear a lot was cut from Rivendell. There's the Narsil scene, the EE scene with Bilbo and Elrond that Philippa said will be in there, and the campfire scene with the Bombur joke feels to me like something that was truncated.
Last edited by kzer_za on Mon Jan 07, 2013 5:34 pm, edited 2 times in total.
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Voronwë the Faithful
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I thought Liv was surprisingly good as Arwen, actually (other than her blubbering over Frodo). Most complaints that I have about her character are due to writing/directing choices, not her acting, or looks.
"Spirits in the shape of hawks and eagles flew ever to and from his halls; and their eyes could see to the depths of the seas, and pierce the hidden caverns beneath the world."
The friend I saw it with, who liked but didn't love LOTR, said AUJ was like rewatching LOTR except without a point.kzer_za wrote:What has the reaction of your non-Tolkien-geek friends been?
I liked Liv.
I wanna love somebody but I don't know how
I wanna throw my body in the river and drown
-The Decemberists
I wanna throw my body in the river and drown
-The Decemberists
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Voronwë the Faithful
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Perhaps that's what it is, that Rivendell seemed underpopulated? But surely if Galadriel could be there -- was she even there? loved how she disappeared on Gandalf -- Arwen could be there . Even if she were just spied on a balcony, thinking about the future, or something...
But yes, perhaps it is the relative lack of life around the place and I just read it as an absence of Arwen. Elves on horses threw me a bit, but Elrond's wine coloured armour was beautiful. He wore the invented sword Hadafang (Arwen's sword) at his side. Perhaps he had not yet given it to her. (You see I'm not a stickler for canon, unless there is absolutely no reason to mess with it.)
ETA I'm a little disappointed to learn they didn't say "stick it up his Jackson" after all. It just seemed so meta-fictional, and appropriate somehow.
. Even if she were just spied on a balcony, thinking about the future, or something... But yes, perhaps it is the relative lack of life around the place and I just read it as an absence of Arwen. Elves on horses threw me a bit, but Elrond's wine coloured armour was beautiful. He wore the invented sword Hadafang (Arwen's sword) at his side. Perhaps he had not yet given it to her. (You see I'm not a stickler for canon, unless there is absolutely no reason to mess with it.)
ETA I'm a little disappointed to learn they didn't say "stick it up his Jackson" after all. It just seemed so meta-fictional, and appropriate somehow.
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Voronwë the Faithful
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I definitely think that Galadriel was there, and I'm glad to hear that you too appreciated her 'disappearance'. Even in my first viewing I caught Gandalf's eyes following her and I thought it was a nice subtle way of portraying Galadriel mysterious otherworldiness. So subtle, apparently, that many people missed it or misinterpreted it.
As far as I am concerned, for ever more Ori will have said "stick it up his Jackson." At least then I can appreciate the line on some stupid level.
As far as I am concerned, for ever more Ori will have said "stick it up his Jackson." At least then I can appreciate the line on some stupid level.
"Spirits in the shape of hawks and eagles flew ever to and from his halls; and their eyes could see to the depths of the seas, and pierce the hidden caverns beneath the world."
Oh yes, that was a perfect bit of acting there. One thing that TH:AUJ drove home for me is the relative frailty of the Maiar in their Middle-earthly forms. If they are guides, they are still guided themselves, and not infallible.Voronwë the Faithful wrote:I definitely think that Galadriel was there, and I'm glad to hear that you too appreciated her 'disappearance'. Even in my first viewing I caught Gandalf's eyes following her and I thought it was a nice subtle way of portraying Galadriel mysterious otherworldiness. So subtle, apparently, that many people missed it or misinterpreted it.
As far as I am concerned, for ever more Ori will have said "stick it up his Jackson." At least then I can appreciate the line on some stupid level.
Now regarding the question of Galadriel's corporeality in the scene:
I'm not saying that the dias where the council met was some sort of holodeck, but was she there, really? It's kind of fuzzy already but did she interact with anyone other than Gandalf? Might that explain why she was walking around seemingly oblivious to the conversation, except Gandalf's part in it?
SirDennis wrote:Now regarding the question of Galadriel's corporeality in the scene:
I'm not saying that the dias where the council met was some sort of holodeck, but was she there, really? It's kind of fuzzy already but did she interact with anyone other than Gandalf? Might that explain why she was walking around seemingly oblivious to the conversation, except Gandalf's part in it?
Refresh some of your memory!
http://youtu.be/R6Ac8cD2TZs
She certainly addresses everybody when she says "Let him speak!"
Besides, I can confirm V's observation - I also noticed how when Galadriel lets go of Gandalf's hands he seems to shake his head as if clearing it from a daydream, but then his eyes follow a spot off in the distance as though he is tracking Galadriel's off-camera progression. I think it's just PJ half-giving the illusion that Galadriel has vanished.
There is magic in long-distance friendships. They let you relate to other human beings in a way that goes beyond being physically together and is often more profound.
~Diana Cortes
~Diana Cortes
I liked Liv, too. I've never understood all the hostility towards her.. 
"What do you fear, lady?" Aragorn asked.
"A cage," Éowyn said. "To stay behind bars, until use and old age accept them, and all chance of doing great deeds is gone beyond recall or desire.”
― J.R.R. Tolkien, The Return of the King
"A cage," Éowyn said. "To stay behind bars, until use and old age accept them, and all chance of doing great deeds is gone beyond recall or desire.”
― J.R.R. Tolkien, The Return of the King
Thanks Elen! I notice Saruman sort of turns in her direction when she says it, but it may also have been to try to glimpse what Gandalf is looking at.Elentári wrote:SirDennis wrote:Now regarding the question of Galadriel's corporeality in the scene:
I'm not saying that the dias where the council met was some sort of holodeck, but was she there, really? It's kind of fuzzy already but did she interact with anyone other than Gandalf? Might that explain why she was walking around seemingly oblivious to the conversation, except Gandalf's part in it?
Refresh some of your memory!
http://youtu.be/R6Ac8cD2TZs
She certainly addresses everybody when she says "Let him speak!"
Besides, I can confirm V's observation - I also noticed how when Galadriel lets go of Gandalf's hands he seems to shake his head as if clearing it from a daydream, but then his eyes follow a spot off in the distance as though he is tracking Galadriel's off-camera progression. I think it's just PJ half-giving the illusion that Galadriel has vanished.