Hall of Fire Reviews - Post Them Here! [SPOILERS!]

[N.E. Brigand]

And his singing and dancing of "Down to Goblintown" is so wonderfully grotesque that it is brilliant.

It's not Tolkien's song. DanielLB has the movie's lyrics here.

[Frelga]

Sir D, the stone giants were not bad guys, they were entirely oblivious to Thorin and Co. My only complaint about them is that the scene had gone on too long.I

Seriously, if you are interested in such details, perhaps it would be less aggravating to see the movie than imagine PJ's excesses. They are, unquestionably, excessive, but possibly less than you imagine.

[Voronwë the Faithful]

It's not Tolkien's song.

I knew that. I was being lazy. I still thought it was great.

[kzer_za]

I completely agree with Voronwë on the Goblin King - he was funny and very close to the book. Also, I think PJ made good decisions by not intercutting between Riddles in the Dark and the Goblintown escape too much, and I'm glad the whole riddle game was one long scene.

After a third viewing, this movie has definitely grown on me. I still don't like the stone giants or Azog, but those are the only major problems I have and I really enjoy it as a whole.

This is probably my last theater viewing unless a friend really wants to go or unless it comes to $2 theaters (I'm not sure if it will at all) before the EE releases.

[SirDennis]

Is there any reason why the stone giants couldn't have remained a terrifying tableaux, vaguely glimpsed throwing boulders at each other during flashes of lightening rather than having the party have a full on encounter with them?

Yup, there is a very good reason.

Hidden text.

Peter Jackson is Peter Jackson.

Well yes, of course that is the reason... what I was wondering is if there is more of a pay off than a little excitement? I mean if you're gonna go large with an otherwise understated moment in the book, is it more because it moves the plot ahead in a discernible way, or is it because PJ doesn't trust the audience?

Ah, there's Frelga -

Thanks. So what I gather then is the giants are doing their thing, and the party is dodging and weaving past them, sort of like the stampede scene in King Kong? And I'm guessing here that in their haste to get away from the giants, the party ends up taking shelter in the cave, leading to the Goblin Town/Riddles scenes? I guess, except in presentation, that is not so much different than the book... though shelter from the storm, not just the giants, was the reason for ducking in the cave iirc.

Departures from the books have never (well, hardly ever) been a source of aggravation for me, whether in LOTR or what I've read of TH:AUJ. Actually, I expect no less from an adaptation. However, not trusting the audience is another matter entirely.

[Voronwë the Faithful]

what I was wondering is if there is more of a pay off than a little excitement?

As someone else pointed out here earlier, it does serve to provide an opportunity to help emphasize how much the dwarves care about each other.

[yovargas]

As I recall, it also gives Thorin the opportunity to yell at Bilbo for almost falling...

[Voronwë the Faithful]

And for being generally useless and out of place. Thus setting up the big reversal at the end.

[N.E. Brigand]

Specfically, after another dwarf says he thought they'd lost Bilbo, Thorin replies, "He's been lost ever since we left home. He should never have come. He has no place amongst us."

[SirDennis]

As I recall, it also gives Thorin the opportunity to yell at Bilbo for almost falling...

I would think that in itself is reason enough for the scene... since Bilbo has vast experience dealing with giants (sarcasm), yelling at him for almost falling must make Thorin look like a proper something or other.

[Elentári]

As I recall, it also gives Thorin the opportunity to yell at Bilbo for almost falling...

I would think that in itself is reason enough for the scene... since Bilbo has vast experience dealing with giants (sarcasm), yelling at him for almost falling must make Thorin look like a proper something or other.

Yes, but that opportunity could have come equally from the stone giants battling a little way off, and Bilbo being unfooted by stray boulders that the Company were having to dodge. PJ simply jumped at the opportunity to go completely OTT and have the Dwarves and Bilbo take a ride on the kneecaps of one of the stone giants, which rendered the sequence even less believable, rather than "cool" for me, even though the majority of the audience seems to have found it so...

[sauronsfinger]

from Elentári

I've been thinking about what you said on the Great Goblin...and how PJ decided to make him a figure of fun instead of how he is in the book. Just imagine how different the Goblin Town sequence would be if the GG was truly frightening, and the Dwarves were fighting for their lives at the same time Bilbo is riddling for his... Could it have worked? or would two serious sequences have cancelled each other out?

Yes, it would have worked out very well. Make the GG a threatening figure that does not look like a cartoon or sound like one. Get rid of his horrible goodbye line which may be the worst line in the film. Change the design of him completely.

I do NOT give points for faithfulness to the book when it results in bad moments on film. Goblin town gets high marks and it was great fun and adventure- the GG should have been radically changed so it was not some burlesque/cartoon hybrid.

[Voronwë the Faithful]

Specfically, after another dwarf says he thought they'd lost Bilbo, Thorin replies, "He's been lost ever since we left home. He should never have come. He has no place amongst us."

N.E.B., have you memorized the entire film? Despite hating it?

[N.E. Brigand]

Know thine enemy?

I was out of practice, but am trying to return to my old habit of extensive note-taking during movies. In this case, however, there are already fan transcripts online that appear to be more or less complete, with only a few minor errors. (Bilbo stammers a lot; this tends to be missed.) Also on TORN someone just linked to a Polish site that has most of the film's invented-language dialogue.

[Voronwë the Faithful]

Know thine enemy?

Enemy? Really? I can see disliking the films, and even wishing that they were never made, but that is a bridge too far for my comprehension.

I was out of practice, but am trying to return to my old habit of extensive note-taking during movies.

I'm curious as to how you manage to take notes during movies without disturbing the other audience-members.

In this case, however, there are already fan transcripts online that appear to be more or less complete, with only a few minor errors. (Bilbo stammers a lot; this tends to be missed.) Also on TORN someone just linked to a Polish site that has most of the film's invented-language dialogue.

I saw a link to that this morning on the MythSoc list (posted by Andy Higgins, who has been working on Orkish languange. Here is the link, if anyone is interested (I presume this is the same as what you are referencing, though I haven't seen the link at TORN):

http://www.elendilion.pl/2013/01/06/g-i ... nd-khuzdl/

Haven't seen any of the transcripts online, though I guess it wouldn't be that hard to google them.

[N.E. Brigand]

Enemy? Really? I can see disliking the films, and even wishing that they were never made, but that is a bridge too far for my comprehension.

I don't use emoticons enough.

I'm curious as to how you manage to take notes during movies without disturbing the other audience-members.

Pen on paper isn't particularly noisy.

[Voronwë the Faithful]

How can you see to write in a dark theater?

Regarding the Elendilion site regarding the language in the films, I notice that they skip Bofur's statement to Gandalf in Khuzdul, which is a shame because I am curious as to what he said (something about Thorin not being there, I think).

(I knew you were joking about the "enemy" thing; I was just having a little fun with you. Sorry about that.)

[N.E. Brigand]

How can you see to write in a dark theater?

I can't! (Except when the image on screen is bright enough.) Which means it can take me quite some time later to work out what I wrote. Probably something like Christopher Tolkien trying to understand his father's manuscripts.

Regarding the Elendilion site regarding the language in the films, I notice that they skip Bofur's statement to Gandalf in Khuzdul, which is a shame because I am curious as to what he said (something about Thorin not being there, I think).

I thought that was Bifur. Doesn't Gandalf reply, "Yes, you're quite right, Bifur, we appear to be one dwarf short."

(I knew you were joking about the "enemy" thing; I was just having a little fun with you. Sorry about that.)

Don't be! Apparently I perceive online humor even more poorly than I convey it.

[Voronwë the Faithful]

Bifur, yes. That is what I meant to say. Believe it or not, that was a typo, not an inability to tell the dwarves apart. The concept supposedly being that Bifur's petition-defying wound renders him unable to speak anything other than Khuzdul.

(And I doubt that anyone other than me, myself and I would have been able to detect the humour in my statement above, so don't beat yourself up about it.)

[River]

Confession time: other than Thorin, I can't keep the dwarves straight, either on paper or on screen. Though on screen it's a little easier due to the visual aides. I can at least think of them as the pretty light one, the pretty dark one, the one with the axe in his head, the one with the odd hat, the red-head, the old one, the fat one, the bald one, and the other three. So, while the axe in the head thing is bit grotesque, I did find it helpful.