Discussion about joke about Gen. Petraeus

[Alatar]

Feel free to address me directly if you're talking about me Nel. Like I say, I'm a big boy, I can take it. I'm not being thin skinned at all. I'm not offended that people don't agree with me. I'm just expressing my PERSONAL OPINION that people are too thin skinned. Any clearer?

BTW, feel free to make Paddy jokes, fat jokes, geek jokes, luvvie jokes or any other kind of joke you like about any of my demographics. You'll find I'm pretty consistent on this.

[JewelSong]

Um...what is a "luvvie"?

[nerdanel]

I certainly was not directly or exclusively addressing you, because you weren't the one who made the initial joke here, so nothing I said in my previous post applied to what you've written in this thread. I also did not address you personally because what I described in my last paragraph applies to many, many people - e.g., my would-be cat-owner acquaintance. It was not intended as a passive-aggressive observation about you specifically.

But it's true: my perception of you and me is that I think we are on the two opposite ends of the spectrum here. I would suspect that I'm in the demographic of thin-skinned Americans that the non-Americans on this board are identifying. And there have been multiple other occasions when you've reacted pretty strongly to other people not finding a joke or comment funny/appropriate, while noting that their reaction (but apparently not yours) was thin-skinned.

[JewelSong]

In general, I think all of us mostly need to get over ourselves.

Some people are boorish (ETA: see finished thought below!)

And I still want to know what a "luvvie" is.

[nerdanel]

In general, I think all of us mostly need to get over ourselves. Some people are boorish

And I still want to know what a "luvvie" is.

Are you calling Al or me (or both of us) boorish?

Googe reveals that a "luvvie" is: (facetious) a person who is involved in the acting profession or the theatre, esp one with a tendency to affectation

[JewelSong]

Argh! The phone rang before I could finish that post and I hit "send" without thinking!

I had this whole thought in mind:

Some people are boorish and there is nothing to be done about it. I do not think any of us on HoF fit that description...even though some (all) of us MAY at times be somewhat - well - annoying for various reasons.

HoF people are, in general, good people who deserve the benefit of the doubt when a post appears to be offensive or "off." Let's keep that in mind and lighten up about each other's posts a bit.

[Túrin Turambar]

You know how it is when you make what you think is a lighthearted comment at a party, and it falls flat, and over the next three days a dozen people collectively publish five pages of writing on the internet censuring you? One of those little awkward moments in life .

(That said, I'm still not complaining about anything anyone has said - I am quite comfortable for people to say whatever they want in response to something I say here)

[The Watcher]

/looks at length of this thread, shakes head in bafflement, and wonders why such a small "gaffe" is being analyzed to such a minute degree/



I am sort of with Alatar, Lali, and Maria. Maybe having a serious near death experience has really mellowed me out, in that I do not easily become offended and tend to put "off" comments in their context. Yeah, the comment was snarky, but L_M DID preface his joke with a flag to that effect.

/bows out of thread/


(And I do tend to agree that nearly any comment, observation, joke, or statement can be found offensive by someone. One can try not to offend, but there is a certain tendency to let down one's guard when posting to a group of MB "friends". I know I am guilty of such things, and they are not intended. )

[Túrin Turambar]

I think I can get a sense of what it must be like to be a politician.

[Frelga]

One day you will thank us.

[River]

One day you will thank us.

Yes. And it will be the day you write off a career in politics (if you haven't already ).

[yovargas]

I keep wanting to let go of this but I can't...I don't give a damn about the original comment, this is not about that anymore. It's about how very much NOT okay that the reaction to this from (mostly) Al is entirely "get a grip", "get over yourself" and "stop being so thin-skinned". And your first post was about YOU feeling censored??

"I have thick-skin so you should too!" Well, congrats for you, buddy! That's such a BS attitude and quite frankly, I tend to prefer those people that you would so dismissively call "thin skinned" - aka people who dare to give a damn - so I'd tell you what you should do with that bit of advice if it wasn't against board rules.

[JewelSong]

Well....

Sheesh. And here I thought we were all just having a discussion.

Oh, well.

[Teremia]

As an INFP on medicines that make her grumpy, jumpy-hearted, and extra-thin-skinned, Teremia is hiding in the next room. Peeking out from time to time to see how things are going. Will gladly put the kettle on when people are ready for tea.

[WampusCat]

Same advice as above, but edited (sorry, I can't help myself...):

1. Post what you wish, but be kind.

2. If you are upset by a post, speak up -- about the post, not the poster.

3. If you are confronted about a post, listen without accusation.

4. After a short exchange of information (this is what bothered me, this is what I meant), let it go. Both of you.



Conversations are no less fun when grounded in courtesy, honesty, respect and love.

[Alatar]

Sigh. I think you and I will never agree on this Yov and I'm surprised frankly. Like Nel, I was pretty comfortable with the fact that we (she and I) were on opposite ends of the spectrum on this and that we would (and do) occasionally rankle each other. But then, I've met Nel, she's stayed in my house, drunk Guinness with me and snuck into my bedroom in the middle of the night. (Ok it was only to wake me up to drive her to the airport, but I'm taking it!) Maybe we cut each other more slack because of that one meeting, I dunno.

I find the vehemence of your reaction genuinely bewildering, and sure, maybe that's a failing in me. I really don't see where you're coming from on this. If I thought for a second anyone here was genuinely hurt by Lord M's joke I would feel differently, but what I perceived was simply some political correctness or over sensitivity. There's a difference.

Wampus, I didn't want to dismiss your guidelines, but one of them at least I do find wrong. Sometimes its right to challenge the status quo. Sometimes you need to defend your position for a while so that everyone understands each other a little better. Buckling immediately and backing off means the issue is never explored. I personally have learned a lot from this thread, even if I still disagree with the more polar opposite viewpoints.

[Túrin Turambar]

There was a critically-praised drama series on the ABC here last year called The Slap, about the out-of-control repercussions that entangle a group of characters when one of them hits another’s kid (for the record, I thought it was overhyped in a melodramatic ‘look how real and gritty this is!’ type of way, but I could see the merit in it).

After this episode I think I might start a treatment on a similar premise, called The Joke. Or maybe a novel. I do have an article on director's duties to write, though, so it might need to wait.

[yovargas]

Like Nel, I was pretty comfortable with the fact that we (she and I) were on opposite ends of the spectrum on this and that we would (and do) occasionally rankle each other.

Saying " I often wonder why I come here since I'm so obviously beneath the superior standards of everyone else who posts here" doesn't really make it sound like you're "pretty comfortable". But if you are comfortable, what it'd be better to be is respectful. Telling other people repeatedly to stop being so like themselves and more like your wonderful self is pretty damn disrespectful, as I see it.

If I thought for a second anyone here was genuinely hurt by Lord M's joke I would feel differently, but what I perceived was simply some political correctness or over sensitivity. There's a difference.

You don't get to tell other people (or in this case several people) when they're "genuinely hurt", they get to tell you. I'm sure nobody was crying and scarred by the original comment but if anybody posts "I'm upset about BLANK", regardless of what that blank was, and your response is just an irritated "Oh, just TTFU", I'd say you're being an ass.

[Alatar]

You are entitled to your opinion. I'm entitled to tell you your opinion sucks. See how that works?

[JewelSong]

Yov, your belated reaction seems kinda over to the top, at least, to me. As I said above, this conversation seemed (again, to ME) to be a general discussion of how people react differently to jokes and some different ways to address jokes we personally thought were inflammatory, prejudiced or otherwise insulting.

There were a number of personal anecdotes and also a lot of general statements. One of them was my very general "we all need to get over ourselves" which you apparently took personally, even though it was directed at everyone, myself included. I don't see anywhere that Alatar has attacked you personally, or even directed any statements at you. And I find most of his posts rather self-deprecating, rather than self-promoting, because that is how he is.

I guess your vehemence has me puzzled, too...and causes me to wonder if something else is going on. FWIW, I agree with Alatar's post above that sometimes it is good to challenge the status quo. If every potentially controversial subject is handled with kid gloves, there would never be any kind of real dialog. And this IS Lasto...not Bag End. A bit of contention is to be expected and even encouraged. Again, IMHO.