How did The Silmarillion change your view of LotR?

[kzer_za]

Of course all the tales in The Silmarillion put LotR in a whole new perspective. What was the biggest thing for you?

For me, I never really understood LotR's ending until I read The Silmarillion. The very first time I read it, I didn't even quite get to the very end, and I kind of felt like Tolkien should have ended it sooner instead of taking 100 pages after the Ring is destroyed.

It wasn't until I read The Silmarillion that I finally understood that LotR is the end of the Third Age, not just of the Hobbits' adventures. Of course they talk about that in LotR, but after The Silmarillion I finally got what that meant. Even The Scouring, which I once regarded as an amusing but basically pointless little diversion, made more sense to me in this context. It has little direct connection to the Elder Days, but it shows that the Fourth Age will not be a paradise free from evil and that the remaining inhabitants of Middle-earth will have to fend for themselves now.

Now the Scouring and The Grey Havens are two of my favorite chapters, while once they were ones I either didn't read or forced myself through for the sake of completion (though it's also probably partly because I was younger the first couple times I read it).

[Voronwë the Faithful]

What a great question, kzer za! I'm going to have to give it some serious thought before answering, however.

I'll be back!

[Voronwë the Faithful]

I wanted to come back and address this question further. Tolkien points out in one his letters that one of the things that makes LOTR so compelling are the unexplained the vistas, the sense of deeper history lurking in the background. So it would be reasonable to worry that the publication of some the actual deeper history in the Silmarillion would erode that sense. For me at least, that has not happened. In fact, knowing more about who Gandalf really is, and the history of Fëanor that he eludes to when speculating about the Palantíri, and who the Oromë that Théoden is compared to is, and so much more, only enhances my appreciation of LOTR. Of course, for me, LOTR is just one part of the greater history, albeit the part that is told in the most depth,

[Primula Baggins]

I have never been able to finish the Silmarillion. I need more time without interruption than I've had since before my children were born. I frankly love LotR, but the Silmarillion is a different kind of book entirely: something like the Bible, which I also have never read start to finish. Not a narrative that flows from page to page at all, and thus far too easy for me to set aside for later.

But in picking away at it, and reading bits that particularly catch my interest or were recommended to me to illuminate something about LotR, I've gotten it far enough into my mind that I've gained this much: I no longer see LotR as a world with the Hobbits and some of the Men in the center and beautiful hints of Elvish and Dwarvish history all around the edges to enrich the tale. Instead I see it as this little bit over here, a favorite bit of history and dear to me, but only a few years and covering only a few hundred miles of a much larger and vastly older and more complex world.

Which is something gained, and can be appreciated even if one has a terrible memory for sorting out people whose names start with F.

[Frelga]

Good question!

I think for me it was Elves. In LOTR they are rather bland, angelic beings with some superpowers. The only two exciting glimpses we get are Glorfindel's transformation at the ford, as seen through Frodo's eyes, and of course Galadriel.

Oh, but Sil Elves are not bland or boring!

[vison]

No, but they aren't Elves, either.

They are majestic and noble persons. Human, in short.

[Frelga]

Ah, now I agree with you.

[Voronwë the Faithful]

Good question!

I think for me it was Elves. In LOTR they are rather bland, angelic beings with some superpowers. The only two exciting glimpses we get are Glorfindel's transformation at the ford, as seen through Frodo's eyes, and of course Galadriel.

Oh, but Sil Elves are not bland or boring!

But does that affect your sense of the Elves in LOTR?

No, but they aren't Elves, either.

They are majestic and noble persons. Human, in short.

I partly agree with you. At one place in his letters, Tolkien does say that he uses the Elves to display an aspect of humanity. But the Elves are definitely Elves, in the old sense of the word, before it was corrupted by the likes of Shakespeare and others.

[Frelga]

But does that affect your sense of the Elves in LOTR?

Yes. For instance, when Glorfindel shows up - it's the difference between seeing a stranger in, say, a restaurant and thinking, "Hm, he is cute," vs. going "OMG, it's Orlando Bloom!!!!"

It gives context.

To the other point, we humans only care for stories about humans. Elves in Sil are as human as rabbits in Watership Down, or gods in Greek myths. Elves in LOTR are largely scenery, but after Sil, one begins to recognize the ecosystem it's meant to represent.

[vison]

I partly agree with you. At one place in his letters, Tolkien does say that he uses the Elves to display an aspect of humanity. But the Elves are definitely Elves, in the old sense of the word, before it was corrupted by the likes of Shakespeare and others.

Well, Elves, whether before or after the word was "corrupted" by Shakespeare, have never appeared the least like the Elves of Middle Earth to me. Tolkien's Elves are more like "Angels" than Elves, when you get right down to it. They also bear some resemblance to the beings in the Greek pantheon - in their beauty and unpredictability and in their tragic flaws.

Elves in European mythology (including in England) were more like "Brownies" or Leprechauns: tricksy and capricious. At least as far as my recollection of reading old tales goes, anyway.

[Old_Tom_Bombadil]

I would not say that The Silmarillion gave me a "whole new perspective" of LOTR, but it certainly it gave me a better understanding of many things that were introduced. Or as Voronwë hinted, gave us a closer view of those unexplained vistas.

The identity of the High Elves is one thing that The Silmarillion clarified for me. We first learn of them when Frodo, Sam, and Pippin encounter a company of Elves while still in the Shire:

'I am Gildor,' answered their leader, the elf who had first hailed him. 'Gildor Inglorion of the House of Finrod. We are Exiles, and most of our kindred have long ago departed over the Great Sea. But some of our kinsfolk dwell still in peace in Rivendell...'

...'I thank you indeed, Gildor Inglorion,' said Frodo bowing. 'Elen síla lúmenn' omentielvo, a star shines on the hour of our meeting,' he added in the high-elven speech.

In The Silmarillion we learn why they are Exiles, and more of what they are exiled from.

Later when the Nine Walkers are passing through Eregion, or 'Hollin' as it is known in the common tongue, Legolas indicates that these Elves are much different than the woodland Elves that we were introduced to in The Hobbit:

'But the Elves of this land were of a race strange to us of the silvan folk, and the trees and the grass do not remember them. Only I hear the stones lament them: deep they delved us, fair they wrought us, high they builded us; but they are gone. They are gone. They sought the Havens long ago.

We learn in The Silmarillion that Eregion was the land where once dwelt Celebrimbor and the Mirdain, and where the Rings of Power, save the One, were crafted. These Elves, the Noldor, were devotees of Aulë the Smith, and were actually friendly with Dwarves!

[Maria]

The Silmarillion is ultra condensed info. It gave me a greater appreciation for fully fleshed out prose. I can listen to the audio book of LOTR for hours on end. I have a max tolerance of 20 minutes at a time for the audiobook of the Silmarillion. It's just too dense. Too much information crammed into too little space. The brain needs to pause and digest after just a little while before continuing.

[Alatar]

Strange, I found the audiobook of the Silmarillion to be the best way of "reading" it.

[Voronwë the Faithful]

Martin Shaw certainly does a better job pronouncing all those names than I do in my head!

[Old_Tom_Bombadil]

I've never listened to an audio book. I do, however, have own The J.R.R. Tolkien Audio Collection that features the Professor reading portions of LOTR as well as some of his poems found in the collection known as The Adventures of Tom Bombadil. The CDs also feature Christopher Tolkien reading chapters 8, 9, & 14 of The Silmarillion.

I love Christopher's readings, particularly where Fëanor answers Maedhros's inquiry about the ships after they've landed at Losgar: "None and none! What I have left behind I count now no loss; needless baggage on the road it has proved. Let those that cursed my name, curse me still, and whine their way back to the cages of the Valar! Let the ships burn!" Ol' CT gets quite dramatic. His reading of the Beren episode (ch. 14) is quite good as well.

[Maria]

I agree that listening to the audiobook is a better way to experience the Sil, but it is still too densely packed with information for me to stand more than 20 minutes or so at a time. Come to think of it, my tolerance when reading the actual book was probably quite limited as well, but the time limit wasn't quite as apparent when someone else is reading it to you at their pace. Brain overloads quicker at being forcefed.

[kzer_za]

I'd like to listen to the audiobook, but I can see it quickly getting overwhelming if you're not already familiar with the story and characters.

[vison]

I've read the Sil a half dozen times and it never gets any easier. It was not written as a whole, it's like reading someone's notes.

But I found it interesting and continue to dip into it from time to time.

I've never listened to an audio book, either. It doesn't appeal to me.

[Primula Baggins]

It would appeal to me if I took a lot of long drives alone or spent long uninterrupted periods working with hands but not brain. Doesn't seem to happen these days.

[Maria]

We have a 40 mile round trip commute and go home for lunch daily. That's an hour on the road every day. The audiobooks keep us sane. When we get caught up in one, we listen to it inside the house, too, preferentially over watching TV or computer games.

The Sil was a road-only book. The plot just doesn't grab you....

I prefer audiobooks, now. I tend to skim over slow parts of paper books (or the really ugly parts) and often miss stuff. A good actor acting the parts will put emphasis where I wouldn't have and sometimes give *more* meaning to a sentance than I would have noticed. It's also amazing the range of voices and accents some actors have, too.