Who do you think will die in the last Harry Potter book?

Post by **Primula Baggins** » Fri Jun 30, 2006 6:47 am

I think the Harry Potter books will endure on the second shelf down—with other classic children's literature such as Narnia, The Wind and the Willows, The Hobbit, Black Beauty, Little Women, Charlotte's Web. . . . I won't be surprised if my grandchildren read them, or my great-grandchildren. Books for young people and children can be much more durable than books for adults; I think they transcend literary fashion (which opens them up to literary criticism when they come out, but preserves them from vanishing with the other fashionable stuff).

You're not still a child, Elsha. You're too compassionate and perceptive to be a child. A shame, huh?

Post by **JewelSong** » Fri Jun 30, 2006 3:03 pm

The trouble with the HP books, in my opinion, is that they are just not very well written.

Don't get me wrong. I enjoy them thoroughly; they are great fun and a welcome change in kid's books. Plus, they get kids to read and re-read and discuss and that is always a good thing. The characters and plot-lines are different and fun and I enjoy the "wizarding world" that Rowling built.

But, as an author, she is not on a par with EB White, Kenneth Grahame, CS Lewis or JRR Tolkien. Her prose does not sing the way theirs does. (I still think EB White's description of the barn in "Charlotte's Web" is one of the most beautiful pieces of prose ever written. And "The Piper at the Gates of Dawn" from "Wind in the Willows" is pure magic....just enchanting writing.)

Will they "endure?" Probably. They are certainly a few steps up from RL Stine's "Goosebumps" tripe. But they don't belong with "The Hobbit" or "Wind in the Willows." (I'd put Sachar's "Holes" there, though...wonderfully written book.)

Maybe on the 3rd shelf.

Post by **Primula Baggins** » Fri Jun 30, 2006 3:18 pm

You make a good point about the writing, Jewel, and that certainly accounts for why all those books are still beloved by adults, whereas many adults will never view the HP books as true classics.

But, kids will still be recommending them to kids, and they will have their place in kid mythology. I can't imagine that my children won't give them to their own children, whereas the Star Wars novels my sons eat up will be long gone and utterly forgotten, with RL Stine and Lemony Snicket and the Sisterhood off the Traveling Pants.

Post by **Alatar** » Fri Jun 30, 2006 3:39 pm

At th risk of being eaten alive, I have to say that I find The Hobbit to be very badly written. It is uneven in style and content. The opening chapters are very much written in a condescending fashion and a very childish tone. Later chapters are much more "adult" in tone. Tolkien had a superb imagination and a wonderful command of language, but how he chose to use those gifts was uneven at best. JK Rowling does not scale the heights of LotR, but she outwrites The Hobbit by a country mile.

Post by **yovargas** » Fri Jun 30, 2006 3:50 pm

*eats Alatar alive*

Haven't read any HP so no comment there, but I actually find that progression from "childish" to "adult" part of The Hobbit's charm. I can see how others might not find it so, though.

Post by **Faramond** » Fri Jun 30, 2006 4:47 pm

*sends Dementor to eat Alatar's soul alive*

Neville is marked for death. I've had my eye on him as a sacrifice since I read the first book, and subsequent revelations about this poor little blighter have only strengthened my belief.

Professor McGonagall is a goneragall. But that's a rather minor death, all things considered. I think Draco Malfoy will kill her.

Harry will live, I think. But one of the trio of Ron, Hermione, and Ginny will not make it. I have no idea who, though. If I had to guess, I'd say Ginny.

Post by **superwizard** » Fri Jun 30, 2006 6:40 pm

I don't think Malfoy will kill anybody. My guess is that he'll go to the good side at the last moment...

Post by **Faramond** » Fri Jun 30, 2006 7:03 pm

If he does go to the good side, it will be after he kills McGoneragall!

But really, what is there in Malfoy's character arc that even hints that he would go to the good side? I would feel rather cheated if he did, unless there is some strong motivation in book 7.

Post by **superwizard** » Fri Jun 30, 2006 10:14 pm

Well he did hesitate when he tried to kill Dumbledore and it seemed like he probably would not have do it. Also he also said he didn't know the werewolf was coming and seemed frightened for his classmates and that's got to count for something. I don't know IMHO Rowling was tring to show us a new side of Draco...

Post by **Queen_Beruthiel** » Fri Jun 30, 2006 11:02 pm

Rowling is no stylist, that's for sure.

However, I simply don't care.

Luna won't see Book 7 out. She has no dramatic function, so I suppose her dramatic function is... to die. And that line about the DA was like having friends.... that didn't ring true. Rowling is manipulating us into feeling sorry for Luna.

What about Neville? I see him and Harry as having different ...cough... trajectories. If Neville dies, I will expect Harry to live.

But I could be wrong.

Post by **Wildwood** » Mon Jul 24, 2006 5:34 pm

I fear and suspect that Harry is gonna be one of the ones to die.

oh - first off - there is a difference between a good story and a good story that is well written and a good story that is masterfully written, etc. We are talking degrees, I think, when it comes to comparing CS Lewis et al to JK Rowling. I am no fit judge of what makes a good writer or a bad on, always being one to fall or not fall for the *story*. I've read many a classic, recognizably masterful author and found it to be a painful chore that no amount of chocolate could make me repeat!! So I suppose it first depends on what you're after, and what you notice....writing vs story being told or both at the same time???

I think the HP stories will stick with me a long time, just like the Narnia stories will. They both enchant me and take me away from my boring day to day life for a little while, which is - for me - one of the greatest gifts an author can give to a reader!

:D

Another thought also occured to me.... characters like Draco and Snape make me cognizant of the difference between being "good" and being "nice". Evil people can behave nicely toward you. Some people who are basically good on the inside can act like total jerks! There is a difference between being good and being nice. I still suspect Snape is evil through and through, but he may be a good guy who just isn't very nice really, and that is why I suspect him more than I ought?

In the same vein, Malfoy may not be able to devote himself to the evil plots of Voldemort. He couldn't quite bring himself to curse Dumbledore. He seemed to want to, but was also at war within himself. So it may be that there is some sort of goodness - some sort of moral code that he sticks to - inside him; maybe that he is not even aware of. But that doesn't mean he has to be nice!! I suspect that, no matter how he turns out, he'll always be a horribly unpleasant person.

And I should not forget that there are degress of goodness and niceness too! One thing she is very good at is making the reader realize that there are many many layers between good and evil!

:D:D

Now - back to my thoughts on Harry being the one who will die. It seems to me that there is a parallel between Harry and Voldemort. I have a feeling that their fates are tied together. I suspect that Harry will have to kill him, but will realize that the only way to effectively end Voldemort is to accept being ended, himself. I am talking "sacrifice" rather than "suicide". Their survival or demise seems linked to me. Seems to stand to reason that, if Voldemort survived because Harry was alive, then Voldemort will die if Harry does.

As for the horcrux thingamajiggies, they made a late entrance, so I don't know if that will get Harry off the hook with this dual destiny thing that I see developing for him and Lord V.

There ya go..... my .02. But don't put too much stock in it. I was just dead certain that Petunia was going to play a role, sooner or later, but that turned out to be a bit of a red herring. I just don't know if it was on purpose or not!

I think - after all is said and done - that will always be the hardest part about writing!! The reader always seems to find things the author didn't intend to be there!

:D:D:D

Post by **Frelga** » Mon Jul 24, 2006 6:40 pm

My .02 - there is no way Harry can possibly die, whatever the logical reasons for killing him off. You can't, you just can't write seven books for young readers only to wind up killing the main character, the one everyone identified with through many years of growing up. It would be the biggest letdown in the history of children's literature.

Except. Does anyone else suspect that Harry is one of the Horcruxes? (sorry if I missed this discussion).

Killing off sidekicks is a time-honored tradition, but R&H are in love and it would be a terribly mean trick to separate them.

And am I the only one who didn't find Narnia books particularly well-written? The Lion, the Witch and the Wardrobe never grabbed me as a child. I re-read it recently, as my son was reading it, and it really struck me how plain the writing was compared to Tolkien's.

Post by **axordil** » Mon Jul 24, 2006 6:58 pm

Frelga--

Lewis wrote like an academic trying to write for kids, which is to say, from a great height downward.

If Rowling were a REALLY great writer, EVERYONE would die, except a few supporting characters here and there left to muse on the senselessness of it all, given that Voldemort is actually Harry come back in time to ensure his own creation and eventual turn to evil.

Post by **Primula Baggins** » Mon Jul 24, 2006 7:33 pm

I like the way you think, Ax.

Post by **Impenitent** » Mon Jul 24, 2006 10:56 pm

The Magician's Nephew was the only Narnia book that still holds up for me.

I recently tried to read The Horse and His Boy to..erm...my boy

and it seemed such a pale imitation of the book I remember reading as a 12 year old.

sigh.

I still think Ginny; self-sacrifice, in the same way as his mother.

Post by **Primula Baggins** » Mon Jul 24, 2006 11:18 pm

I find it easier to believe it's Ginny than Ron or Hermione. Rowling has a way of shoving characters forward when she's planning to kill them off, to make sure that we care when it happens. Sometimes it feels a little forced to me (Cedric). I have gotten the same feeling from the Ginny/Harry romance in Book 6.

Of course, she did kill Dumbledore, who was one of the genuinely central characters, there from the start. On the other hand, killing off the Wise Advisor so the hero has to face the villain alone is practically a cliché.

As is, come to think of it, killing off the hero's love interest.

I guess Ginny's wearing a red shirt. . . .

Post by **superwizard** » Tue Jul 25, 2006 12:56 pm

I wouldn't really mind the killing of Ginny. Chances are one of those Weasleys is going to die. Killing off Hermoine and Ron would be a shame, so would killing off the last 2 friends of James (kill of Wormtongue just not Lupin).

Post by **Faramond** » Tue Jul 25, 2006 7:21 pm

Last night as I was falling to sleep I realized who is sure to die.

Hedwig!

What could be more heartrending then losing your beloved owl?

Actually, I think Voldemort will unleash the dreaded "H ache" spell, causing everyone with a name starting with H to die. Goodbye, Harry, Hermione, Hagrid, Hedwig, Hron, Hinny ...

Post by **Impenitent** » Wed Jul 26, 2006 1:26 am

"H ache" spell, eh? One big sneeze and they're all gone.

Post by **superwizard** » Wed Jul 26, 2006 12:01 pm

Not a bad idea, just make it sound more Harry Potterish like The Deadly H ache or something like that.