Roe v Wade has been overturned. How do you feel about that?

[Voronwë the Faithful]

No problem, but I didn't want you to see that the subject has been discussed (hopefully you caught my "it is a gift" post.

[N.E. Brigand]

The regular Republican argument for decades has been that they want abortion issues decided at the state level, but Senator Lindsey Graham, Republican of South Carolina, said today that abortion "is not a states' rights issue".

As noted earlier in this thread, last week Graham introduced a bill that would ban abortions nationally at fifteen weeks

[N.E. Brigand]

The Republican National Committee is upset that Georgia gubernatorial candidate Stacey Abrams correctly said yesterday that medical professionals agree there is no such thing as a "heartbeat" in a fetus at six weeks. The sound of a "heartbeat" at six weeks is actually generated by the ultrasound machine.

[RoseMorninStar]

The Republican National Committee is upset that Georgia gubernatorial candidate Stacey Abrams correctly said yesterday that medical professionals agree there is no such thing as a "heartbeat" in a fetus at six weeks. The sound of a "heartbeat" at six weeks is actually generated by the ultrasound machine.

Really? I didn't know that.

[N.E. Brigand]

The Republican National Committee is upset that Georgia gubernatorial candidate Stacey Abrams correctly said yesterday that medical professionals agree there is no such thing as a "heartbeat" in a fetus at six weeks. The sound of a "heartbeat" at six weeks is actually generated by the ultrasound machine.

Really? I didn't know that.

Yeah, my understanding is that there's no real sound until at least ten weeks, and it's not really a heartbeat until about twenty weeks. So at six weeks, what the ultrasound does is to render the beating electrical impulses in cardiac tissue (which at that point are still so primitive that they can be recreated in a petri dish) as something that sounds like a heartbeat, but it's not an actual amplification of the small vibration in the tissue.

But I didn't know that before today, either. So even though what Abrams is saying is true, it may be a political mistake to say so.

[Dave_LF]

And it doesn’t matter either way. The cow that provided the prime rib the fat cats feast on every night most definitely had a heartbeat, but they couldn’t care less. Because a heartbeat means nothing.

[RoseMorninStar]

No, technically it doesn't matter, and I get where you are coming from Dave. I find it interesting because for quite some time I have been trying to think of a comparable medical situation in which men would be similarly affected and subject to government law forcing a medical decision against their will. There is nothing. The only thing I could come up with (which is definitely flawed) would be, for example, someone with a tumor.. living tissue, and being forced to accommodate that tumor as long as it was living tissue. It would be illegal to take medication to rid themselves of the tumor (even it it could potentially harm their life) nor could they have the tumor legally removed.

[N.E. Brigand]

The Department of Justice's Office of Legal Counsel has issued a memo that says states may not prosecute Veterans' Administration medical personnel who perform abortions (when done in cases of rape or incest or to preserve the life or health of the mother, all of which are permitted per VA guidance).

[Frelga]

California proposition 1 will put legal protection for abortion access into the State Constitution. It has broad voter support, and is likely to drive progressive turnout in more conservative districts.

Re: heartbeat, as I understand it. It depends if you are talking about 6 weeks post conception, at which point the heart already has chambers. If it's 6 weeks of gestational-age, which is counted from the start of the last period, then the embryo is only about 4 weeks from conception, the heart is just beginning to form, and the whole thing is smaller than a dry bean.

[N.E. Brigand]

"Texas doctors told the family of a severely ill pregnant woman that she can't have an abortion unless she has a stroke or liver failure." (source).

[N.E. Brigand]

In March, the Wall Street Journal found that 48% of Americans supported a ban on abortions at 15 weeks (with exceptions to protect the health of the mother).

In August, the WSJ found that number had changed significantly: only 30% of Americans supported a 15-week abortion ban (with the same exception).

[RoseMorninStar]

At the age of 14 girls (there are multiple stories in multiple states) are being denied medication for illnesses such as Crohn's disease, Lupus, cancer, and Rheumatoid arthritis because they are considered 'of child bearing age'. The lack of medication can render these young women crippled and handicapped, and can even result in death. These are young women who are not even pregnant.

[N.E. Brigand]

Here's another story about about the harm abortion bans are causing (beyond just making women slaves to a forced birth regime):

"A six-week abortion ban in Ohio has forced people with cancer to travel out of state for abortions that are necessary to continue with life-saving treatment, according to affidavits submitted by abortion providers in the state. In at least two cases, cancer patients have been blocked from receiving treatment until their pregnancies were terminated — and getting an abortion required them to leave the state."

[RoseMorninStar]

That is horrific. As if those with cancer don't already have enough to deal with. For those being refused medical treatment even when they are NOT pregnant but only of childbearing age.. that's .. what would that be? Beyond callous. Barbaric.

[Voronwë the Faithful]

Judge puts Ohio’s six-week abortion ban on hold indefinitely

[N.E. Brigand]

In response to that news and to statements from French President Emmanuel Macron, some people have noted that the Mississippi law struck down yesterday was less restrictive of abortion than French law. That's true!

The irony here is very deep. Had the recently proposed bill on abortion been as sensible as the French law (and the laws of many other countries), Joe Manchin would have voted for it and all of the worries voiced here would have been moot. He says he would even have voted for a law that codified Roe (that is, abortion until viability), but that wasn't good enough for the Democrats, who insisted that abortion must be legal until the moment before birth.

I noticed that two different Republican candidates for governor tonight (in Michigan and Wisconsin) both claimed that their Democratic opponents support abortion "until the moment of birth."

No one is getting an abortion in the third trimester for frivolous reasons. And the only abortion that would be performed at the very end of a pregnancy is one that was necessary to save the mother's life.

What this nasty little talking point hides is that Republicans (and their enablers) would let women die.

[Sunsilver]

So, a friend posted this on their FB timeline. FB marked it as 'false news'.
I am steaming mad...
I have a friend whose father (now passed away) was a surgeon. His first comment when Roe vs. Wade was originally passed was, "Well, at least now I won't have to scoop out the rotted innards of women who've had back-alley abortions anymore!"

[N.E. Brigand]

Last night in Georgia, the current Attorney General, Chris Carr, a Republican, said that he would never prosecute a woman for having an abortion, but then he added that individual district attorneys should be able to do so.

Today in Wisconsin, the Republican vying to be the state's next governor, Tim Michels, said in a debate, "I will never arrest a doctor" for performing an abortion. After the debate, his campaign put out a statement saying that district attorneys and police would do the arresting.

They want to put women and their doctors in prison.

[RoseMorninStar]

I'm worried about Wisc.

[N.E. Brigand]

President Biden reminds reporters that the Democratic position already is a compromise:

Reporter: Should there be any restrictions on abortion at all?

Biden: Yes, there should be.

Reporter: What should they be?

Biden: Roe v. Wade. Read it man. You’ll get educated.