Episode 5 (Spoilers, including discussion of the preview)

[Voronwë the Faithful]

I'll still wait and digest the Mithril-Silmaril bit and see how big of a thing they make it into eventually and how much of it is just shrugged off as an urban legend. To quote the book, the show hangs at the edge of a knife. Stray but a little and it will fail.

I dunno, I feel like the in-universe truth of the mithril origin story is kinda beside the point. They're still making this a huge plot point and the linchpin of two key characters' motivations. If it turns out Gil-galad and Celebrimbor bet the farm on a story that truly is just an Elvish folk tale ... I don't really see that as better.

Where is Stranger Wings? I'd be curious to know his take on the (IMHO) ridiculous turn that things have taken, given how gaga he has been about the series.

[Eldy]

Or, he and Gil-Galad have common roots from the First Age.

Now the only question is if Adar is Fingon or Orodreth, depending on which version of Gil-galad's adar the showrunners prefer.

[Voronwë the Faithful]

I seem to recall something that indicated that they were using the "ephemeral" version, but I don't recall what it is that is.

[Eldy]

For what it's worth, "an ephemeral idea" is how Christopher described the idea that Gil-galad was Fingon's son (HoMe XII, p. 351).

[Inanna]

Or, he and Gil-Galad have common roots from the First Age.

Now the only question is if Adar is Fingon or Orodreth, depending on which version of Gil-galad's adar the showrunners prefer.

What does “adar” mean as you used it?

[Voronwë the Faithful]

"Adar" means "father".

[Inanna]

Ah right. Arondir asks him - why do they (orcs) call you “father”. I thought Adar was his name….

[Voronwë the Faithful]

For what it's worth, "an ephemeral idea" is how Christopher described the idea that Gil-galad was Fingon's son (HoMe XII, p. 351).

When I said "I don't recall what that is" I was not referring to what the ephemeral idea was, which I do recall (and discuss at length in my book). I was referring to what it was that made me think that in the show Gil-Galad was in fact Fingon's son. I guess I should have been clearer.

Doing a quick search, I can't find anything about the show going with Gil-Galad as Fingon's son. All I can find is our previous discussion speculating about which heritage they would use, in which we agreed that we both vastly prefer the idea of Gil-galad as an Arafinwean (but that Stranger WIngs does not).

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[Dave_LF]

Speaking of languages, has anyone managed to translate any of the unsubtitled things Stranger mutters to himself?

[Eldy]

When I said "I don't recall what that is" I was not referring to what the ephemeral idea was, which I do recall (and discuss at length in my book).

My apologies; I did not mean to cast any aspersions upon your familiarity with the texts.

Speaking of languages, has anyone managed to translate any of the unsubtitled things Stranger mutters to himself?

I'm pretty sure I heard envinyata in there, which is the infinitive form of a Quenya verb meaning to renew or heal (cf. Aragorn's title Envinyatar "Renewer").

[Frelga]

I don't see any reason why Galadriel should be "Wise" at this point. She is a military leader, why would diplomacy or state craft be her strength?

She seems to be written along the lines of many popular male action heroes - headstrong, confident in being right, impatient with authority. By contrast, Elrond is a diplomat who works through "soft power" and personal connections.

I've become very invested into the plot line with Bronwyn's people. I'm confused, though. Are they implying that it happened earlier than the Númenor plot line, in Halbrand's past?

[Eldy]

I've become very invested into the plot line with Bronwyn's people. I'm confused, though. Are they implying that it happened earlier than the Númenor plot line, in Halbrand's past?

I'm under the impression events are unfolding more or less simultaneously, and that Míriel's expeditionary force, with Galadriel and Halbrand in tow, will likely meet up with Arondir, Bronwyn, et al in the next episode or two. Halbrand clearly has some shit in his past, but I don't think we've been told what it was exactly, yet.

[Frelga]

Right, that's what I thought, but the cut from "you don't know what I did to survive" to people coming to serve not-really-Sauron made me wonder.

I was never on the Halbrand is Sauron wagon and after this episode I think it cansscratched out permanently.

Also, what are they doing with Isildur? He is covering up for the guy who blew up two ships. If they are implying that he was not a good guy because he later tried to keep the Ring, then they are missing the point

[Eldy]

I imagine that cut was to imply/foreshadow that Halbrand had ties to the faction of Southlanders still loyal to Melkor and/or Sauron, such as Waldreg. If he isn't Sauron, I get the sense that he fled the Southlands not so much because of a vague sense that his destiny was out to get him, and more because there were people actively trying to push him into an important role in the pro-Sauron movement. Possibly those people are the ones who taught him to fight so well.

I am not a fan of show!Isildur and will leave it at that for now.

[Alatar]

Ok so I finally caught up. Busy weekend. Loved parts, heted parts. THe idea that Elvish immortality is "fading" and can be boosted with a shot of Silmaril infused Mithril is easily the dumbest thing they've come up with so far, but then we got to see Glorfindel and the Balrog (well, in my Head canon anyway). Bastards. Stop manipulating me!

I think the Ice thing with the stranger was a deliberate misdirect. "Remember, Sauron causes Ice!". Now lemme, think, what other Fire Maia do we know who has a long standing friendship with Hobbits?

Speaking of character predictions, I saw a theory that Adar could be Maeglin, who we last saw thrown from the battlements of Gondolin. "and his body as it fell smote the rocky slopes of Amon Gwareth thrice ere it pitched into the flames below". Would explain his injuries!

[Alatar]

Also, I chuckled at this. Gareth is the Author of the Black Iron Legacy books, but also writes RPG books for The One Ring RPG, so he's used to colouring in between and round the lines:

[Eldy]

I suppose there's something to be said for keeping things in perspective!

[Dave_LF]

I briefly wondered too if that smash cut was trying to tell us that eg Theo’s friend was young Halbrand and that storyline was set earlier, but everyone saw the meteor at the same time and the southern elves were recalled at the same time as Galadriel. I’m increasingly of the opinion that there are no Shyamalan twists coming and things should simply be taken at face value. Which lowers my estimation of the whole thing, since every episode has introduced a plot device that’s pretty whacko on its face.

This was a frustrating episode in that every storyline just treaded water. The Numenorians spent the entire episode dealing with surprise setbacks in order to end where we thought they were starting (where did Galadriel get that armor, by the way?). The Stranger gives mixed signals and we don’t know if we can trust him or not (granted that Nori herself seems to be having her first serious doubts and we got our first glimpse of the Mystics). The Southlanders are about to be attacked by orcs, and some of them want to surrender (we did get Theo coming clean). The one big plot development was the mithril/Silmaril thing, which is dumb, even if it’s just a trick to get Elrond to help make rings (in which case he’d be dumb for falling for it).

It’s fine for serials to do episodes where we just kind of hang with the characters—provided they’ve earned enough good graces that that’s a thing we want to do—but creating the illusion of motion by simply stepping back the same amount you step forward can get irritating.

Also getting Jacksonesque shudders from the suggestion that ships can sail all the way from Númenor to Mordor in time to intervene in a battle that’s already starting. If the writers really wanted to kill time this episode, why not commit it to a long sea voyage?

(I keep editing) I’m going to assume some reviewer’s already drawn a comparison between imbued mithril and midi-chlorians?Reducing something mystical and spiritual to physics…

[Frelga]

I would like to think that Gil-Galad is manipulating Elrond again, and that he needs mithril for some different purpose. He just has an untrustworthy face.

[Voronwë the Faithful]

I would like to think that Gil-Galad is manipulating Elrond again, and that he needs mithril for some different purpose. He just has an untrustworthy face.

I cringe every time I see him. Not the Gil-Galad that Tolkien wrote, that's for sure.