Trump Espionage and Obstruction Investigation

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Voronwë the Faithful
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Re: The Russia Investigations and other Trump-related cases

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Re: The Russia Investigations and other Trump-related cases

Post by N.E. Brigand »

N.E. Brigand wrote: Thu Aug 11, 2022 7:50 pm Some Trump associates are suggesting that he secretly declassified them all just before leaving office.
And a fellow at the conservative Heritage Foundation told NBC today that President Trump (until noon on Jan. 20, 2001) wouldn't even have to tell anyone but could merely decide in his mind that the documents had been declassified.
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Re: The Russia Investigations and other Trump-related cases

Post by N.E. Brigand »

Voronwë the Faithful wrote: Thu Aug 11, 2022 10:46 pm Marcy Wheeler doesn't think that Trump will agree to the unsealing. ...

I'm of two minds about it. I think that there is fairly good chance that the judge will eventually unseal it anyway, even if he does object. After all, it was Trump himself who announced the search in the first place and he is and his team have made all kinds of statements about it, including today: "The government could have had whatever they wanted, if we had it," Trump said. "Everything was fine, better than most previous Presidents, and then, out of nowhere and with no warning, Mar-a-Lago was raided, at 6:30 in the morning, by VERY large numbers of agents, and even 'safecrackers.'"

I doubt the judge will let him have his cake and eat it too.
Trump now has said he won't oppose the unsealing.

That said, he adds that the government should release the documents now. But he himself has the documents in question and could release them immediately, if he wished. That he has not done so suggests he doesn't really want them made public.
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Re: The Russia Investigations and other Trump-related cases

Post by N.E. Brigand »

A report from three years ago that might now be relevant:

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Re: The Russia Investigations and other Trump-related cases

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Re: The Russia Investigations and other Trump-related cases

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Wow. SMH>... :nono:
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Re: The Russia Investigations and other Trump-related cases

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Unreal. Nuclear documents taken by a former President to a residence known to be vulnerable to espionage.
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Re: The Russia Investigations and other Trump-related cases

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“What if he attempted a coup and then stole American nuclear secrets, would you still support him then?” is the sort of question that would have gotten you kicked off your 2016 debate team for being leading and absurdly over the top.
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Re: The Russia Investigations and other Trump-related cases

Post by RoseMorninStar »

Merrick Garland is playing master level chess.

Dave, I was thinking last night about the absolute absurdities we've become accustomed to over the past +/-6 years.
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Re: The Russia Investigations and other Trump-related cases

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The Wall Street Journal article is behind a paywall for me, but here is one that quotes from it.

FBI Recovered 11 Sets of Classified Documents in Search
“FBI agents who searched former President Donald Trump’s Mar-a-Lago home Monday removed 11 sets of classified documents, including some marked as top secret and meant to be only available in special government facilities,” the Wall Street Journal reports.

“The Federal Bureau of Investigation agents took around 20 boxes of items, binders of photos, a handwritten note and the executive grant of clemency for Mr. Trump’s ally Roger Stone, a list of items removed from the property shows.”

“Also included in the list was information about the ‘President of France.’”

“The list includes references to one set of documents marked as ‘Various classified/TS/SCI documents,’ an abbreviation that refers to top-secret/sensitive compartmented information. It also says agents collected four sets of top secret documents, three sets of secret documents, and three sets of confidential documents.“
My question is, while it is bad enough that they found highly classified documents there, what if there were documents that were missing that they did not find?

Rose in particular has talked a lot in the past about Trump's narcissistic personality, but this it to a level beyond anything that we have seen (assuming, of course, that it is true).
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Re: The Russia Investigations and other Trump-related cases

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V, or if information has already been used or passed along in some way.

I am not surprised but also disgusted. One would think it would be a turning point but then I read the comments (I should never read the comments). :nono:

Wall Street Journal article in full:
FBI Recovered Eleven Sets of Classified Documents in Trump Search, Inventory Shows
Trump allies claim the former president declassified the documents recovered from Mar-a-Lago


FBI agents who searched former President Donald Trump’s Mar-a-Lago home Monday removed 11 sets of classified documents, including some marked as top secret and meant to be only available in special government facilities, according to documents reviewed by The Wall Street Journal.

The Federal Bureau of Investigation agents took around 20 boxes of items, binders of photos, a handwritten note and the executive grant of clemency for Mr. Trump’s ally Roger Stone, a list of items removed from the property shows. Also included in the list was information about the “President of France,” according to the three-page list. The list is contained in a seven-page document that also includes the warrant to search the premises which was granted by a federal magistrate judge in Florida.

The list includes references to one set of documents marked as “Various classified/TS/SCI documents,” an abbreviation that refers to top-secret/sensitive compartmented information. It also says agents collected four sets of top secret documents, three sets of secret documents, and three sets of confidential documents. The list didn’t provide any more details about the substance of the documents.

Mr. Trump’s lawyers argue that the former president used his authority to declassify the material before he left office. While a president has the power to declassify documents, there are federal regulations that lay out a process for doing so.

The search and seizure warrant, signed by U.S. Magistrate Judge Bruce Reinhart, shows that FBI agents sought to search “the 45 Office,” as well as “all storage rooms and all other rooms or areas within the premises used or available to be used by [the former president] and his staff and in which boxes or documents could be stored, including all structures or buildings on the estate.”

They didn’t seek access to search private guest rooms, such as those of Mar-a-Lago members, according to the document.
Former President Donald Trump, departing Trump Tower in New York Wednesday, has said he wouldn’t oppose releasing the search warrant.

The former president and his team don’t have the affidavit, which would provide more detail about the FBI’s investigation, according to people familiar with the process. His lawyers have asked for a more specific account of what was removed from Mar-a-Lago.

Mr. Trump, in a post on his social-media platform Thursday, said his representatives had been “cooperating fully” and added, “The government could have had whatever they wanted, if we had it.”
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Re: The Russia Investigations and other Trump-related cases

Post by Voronwë the Faithful »

Thanks Rose. The National Archives has put out a statement in response to Trump's ridiculous attack on President Obama.

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Re: The Russia Investigations and other Trump-related cases

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Yes, well, it's pretty clear that Trump doesn't believe laws actually apply to him in addition to everyone else. It's part of his appeal to his fans, even. They identify with the sentiment and admire that he seems to get away with it. The fact that Trump's power and privilege obviously has some limits is cause for panic. He is, at the end of the day, just an old man who had a bunch of things he had no right to have tucked away in his home. Being an ex-President and celebrity doesn't save him from that. Nor will it spare him consequences if this is what it appears to be shaping up as.

In the case of nuclear secrets, the President does not have unilateral power to declassify so even if Trump managed to convince everyone that if he thought a document should be declassified it became so regardless of process or paperwork, he STILL could not have declassified the nuclear secrets.
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Re: The Russia Investigations and other Trump-related cases

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Judicial Watch, the conservative group that was the first organization to make a motion to unseal the warrant and related documents, has filed a document giving the court notice of Trump's statement calling for the immediate release of the warrant and related documents, and attaching a copy of Trump's unhinged statement:
Statement by Donald J. Trump, 45th President of the United States of America

Not only will I not oppose the release of documents related to the unAmerican, unwarranted, and unnecessary raid and break-in of my home in Palm Beach, Florida, Mar-a-Lago, I am going a step further by ENCOURAGING the immediate release of those documents, even though they have been drawn up by radical left Democrats and possible future political opponents, who have a strong and powerful vested interest in attacking me, much as they have done for the last 6 years. My poll numbers are the strongest they have ever been, fundraising by the Republican Party is breaking all records, and midterm elections are fast approaching. This unprecedented political weaponization of law enforcement is inappropriate and highly unethical. The world is watching as our Country is being brought to a new low, not only on our border, crime, economy, energy, national security, and so much more, but also with respect to our sacred elections!

Release the documents now!
The Office of Donald J. Trump
ETA: However, the DoJ has not yet filed anything even though the deadline is only 25 minutes away, suggesting that despite Trump's statement, his attorneys have not yet confirmed to the DoJ that Trump does not object to the unsealing.
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Re: The Russia Investigations and other Trump-related cases

Post by Voronwë the Faithful »

Breitbart has confirmed that the warrant states that the statutes that are being investigated are: 18 U.S.C. section 793, which deals with defense information; 18 U.S.C. section 1519, which deals with destroying federal documents; and 18 U.S.C. section 2071, which deals with concealing, removing, or damaging federal documents.

Trump is trying to claim that he can't be held liable for any of this because he declassified the information, but first of all he didn't, and secondly, some of it potentially he could have.
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Re: The Russia Investigations and other Trump-related cases

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And now the DoJ's notice that Trump does not contest the unsealing has been filed.

The real question will be if and when the affadavit supporting the warrant will be unsealed. That is the document that will tell us more about what is going on, and what the media is clamoring to be unsealed. Trump's statement seems to imply he wants that unsealed to, but I'm sure the DoJ will contest that. Their response on that is due on Monday.
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Re: The Russia Investigations and other Trump-related cases

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Re: The Russia Investigations and other Trump-related cases

Post by Voronwë the Faithful »

The judge has unsealed the warrant and the invoice, and I have read it.

One thing to keep in mind is that the inclusion of section 2071 suggests that they were also looking to see what was not there, and had therefore either been lost, destroyed, stored somewhere else, or given to some other person.
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Re: The Russia Investigations and other Trump-related cases

Post by Voronwë the Faithful »

Here is the warrant, in case anyone is interested.

https://www.documentcloud.org/documents ... mp-warrant
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Re: The Russia Investigations and other Trump-related cases

Post by Dave_LF »

Serious question: at what point does this leave the DOJ and become a matter for a military tribunal?
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