Trump Espionage and Obstruction Investigation

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Frelga
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Trump Espionage and Obstruction Investigation

Post by Frelga »

I split this off from the Russian Investigations and Other Trump-related cases thread, since it seems to justify its own thread. Frelga, feel free to edit the title if you feel the need - VtF
The FBI executed a search warrant today at President Trump's Mar-a-Lago resort in Palm Beach, the former president confirms to CNN in a lengthy statement.
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Re: The Russia Investigations and other Trump-related cases

Post by Voronwë the Faithful »

I posted about that in the 2020 election thread, but it probably good to have it here too, since it is unclear what the purpose of the raid.
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Re: The Russia Investigations and other Trump-related cases

Post by Voronwë the Faithful »

For what it is worth.

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Re: The Russia Investigations and other Trump-related cases

Post by River »

Good lord. Is this because asking nicely wasn't working or did they determine there was something rather important/sellable in the stash he ran off with?

Apparently the White House was caught completely off guard by this. Which is actually how it should be.
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Re: The Russia Investigations and other Trump-related cases

Post by Voronwë the Faithful »

The NY Times is also reporting that it is related to the missing records, but I really find that hard to believe that they would have authorized a raid just for that, and that a judge would have signed off on a warrant, which requires probable cause that a crime has been committed.

https://www.nytimes.com/live/2022/08/08 ... gin-google
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Re: The Russia Investigations and other Trump-related cases

Post by River »

There's speculation brewing that the info was going up for sale. Though let's put that aside for the moment. Trump's just an ordinary citizen now. No security clearance, no title, no Oval Office. An ordinary citizen with a pile of classified material he has no right to have and he's been refusing to give it back. Is that itself not a crime?
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Re: The Russia Investigations and other Trump-related cases

Post by elengil »

River wrote: Tue Aug 09, 2022 2:42 am There's speculation brewing that the info was going up for sale. Though let's put that aside for the moment. Trump's just an ordinary citizen now. No security clearance, no title, no Oval Office. An ordinary citizen with a pile of classified material he has no right to have and he's been refusing to give it back. Is that itself not a crime?
Did he lose his clearance? It's not quite accurate to say he's just an 'ordinary citizen' - he's still a former president, and traditionally they do retain classified clearances, and his titled (sadly) *is* still Mr. President.

So simply having the classified material may not actually be an issue - especially if it's not the "official" copy that goes into the records, right??

But trying to sell it?? That would ... not surprise me in the slightest, honestly.


Maybe it's just the generally crappy things that have been hitting (people around) me lately but I honest to god giggled at this news. Not that I expect much to come of it - I have zero expectation of him being held accountable for anything so really anything at all is already exceeding my expectations. But just the very idea of it made me giggle.
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Re: The Russia Investigations and other Trump-related cases

Post by River »

elengil wrote: Tue Aug 09, 2022 2:54 am Did he lose his clearance?
Not sure he had one. Even if he did, he's still not allowed to keep classified documents in his home.
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Re: The Russia Investigations and other Trump-related cases

Post by elengil »

River wrote: Tue Aug 09, 2022 3:29 am
elengil wrote: Tue Aug 09, 2022 2:54 am Did he lose his clearance?
Not sure he had one. Even if he did, he's still not allowed to keep classified documents in his home.
As president he did, and former presents often retain it... No I agree he almost certainly isn't/wasn't/shouldn't have been allowed to just take boxes of documents but I'm not sure that alone would warrant (heh) the raid.
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"Does anyone ever think about Denethor, the guy driven to madness by staying up late into the night alone in the dark staring at a flickering device he believed revealed unvarnished truth about the outside word, but which in fact showed mostly manipulated media created by a hostile power committed to portraying nothing but bad news framed in the worst possible way in order to sap hope, courage, and the will to go on? Seems like he's someone we should think about." - Dave_LF
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Re: The Russia Investigations and other Trump-related cases

Post by RoseMorninStar »

According to the Presidential Records Act of 1978 (because of Nixon) Presidential records belong to the people, not the individual.
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Re: The Russia Investigations and other Trump-related cases

Post by Voronwë the Faithful »

To the best of my knowledge, there are no criminal penalties associated with the Presidential Records Act, so the search is likely not associated with just that.
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Re: The Russia Investigations and other Trump-related cases

Post by Voronwë the Faithful »

Meanwhile,

Appeals court says House can obtain Trump's taxes from the IRS

Still not the end of the line, as he can try to appeal to the SCOTUS. Even if they don't take up the case (which I don't think they will) they can sit on it indefinitely.
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Re: The Russia Investigations and other Trump-related cases

Post by Voronwë the Faithful »

Turning back to the search of Mar Lago, while we still really don't know why they executed the search warrant, we certainly do know why they did it when they did it. The Justice Department has a longstanding policy not to take politically sensitive actions within 90 days of an election. The search was executed 91 days before the midterms.

If there is an indictment (which I still don't think will happen), I would guess it will be some time between Election Day and when Speaker McCarthy takes over the House.
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Re: The Russia Investigations and other Trump-related cases

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"Spirits in the shape of hawks and eagles flew ever to and from his halls; and their eyes could see to the depths of the seas, and pierce the hidden caverns beneath the world."
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Re: The Russia Investigations and other Trump-related cases

Post by Voronwë the Faithful »

Marcy Wheeler lays out the potential case against Trump for stealing classified information.

DOJ’S JUNE MAR-A-LAGO TRIP HELPS PROVE 18 USC 793E

How ludicrous -- but ultimately fitting -- would it be if that was what eventually took Trump down. To be clear, I still don't expect it to happen, but it would seem remarkable folly to me to go forward with this unprecedented search and then not charge him.
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Re: The Russia Investigations and other Trump-related cases

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Re: The Russia Investigations and other Trump-related cases

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Tweet of the day
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A commenter called it a byline from the New Orc Times
His philosophy was a mixture of three famous schools -- the Cynics, the Stoics and the Epicureans -- and summed up all three of them in his famous phrase, 'You can't trust any bugger further than you can throw him, and there's nothing you can do about it, so let's have a drink."

Terry Pratchett, Small Gods
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Re: The Russia Investigations and other Trump-related cases

Post by RoseMorninStar »

:rofl:
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Re: The Russia Investigations and other Trump-related cases

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"Spirits in the shape of hawks and eagles flew ever to and from his halls; and their eyes could see to the depths of the seas, and pierce the hidden caverns beneath the world."
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Re: The Russia Investigations and other Trump-related cases

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"Spirits in the shape of hawks and eagles flew ever to and from his halls; and their eyes could see to the depths of the seas, and pierce the hidden caverns beneath the world."
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