Roe v Wade has been overturned. How do you feel about that?

[Voronwë the Faithful]

That's a good, accurate article. Thanks for sharing the text, Al.

[N.E. Brigand]

Here's a prominent conservative activist arguing that Republicans now need to demonstrate they do care about children as much as the unborn by passing a paid maternity leave bill, but oh my goodness! what a ridiculous plan this is:



The paid maternity leave is paid by the person on leave?

[N.E. Brigand]

A synagogue in Boynton Beach, Florida has sued that state on the grounds that its 15-week abortion ban violates religious freedom.

It does violate religious freedom, but I'm curious whether the synagogue has standing to sue.

One prominent conservative legal scholar argues that even if this suit were to get past procedural issues, it would fail because the congregation in question isn't sufficiently observant. More broadly speaking, he writes, "The legal concept of a 'substantial burden,' which was developed in the context of Christian faiths, does not neatly map onto a Jewish faith that does not actually impose any requirements on congregants, but instead only offers aspirational principles."

[Voronwë the Faithful]

I edited the title of the thread given the events of the past few days (sadly, the thread-starter is no longer with us). I note that this one of the earliest threads in this forum, so it has been around for a long time. I also note that the first statement in the first post was:

I believe Alito is the majority vote needed to overturn Roe v Wade. I believe it will happen, sooner rather than later.

Well, it took 16 and half years from that post for it to happen, and three more conservative justices were needed to provide the majority vote to overturn Roe, but Alito did write the opinion. It is interesting to go back and look at some of the early comments in the thread.

[N.E. Brigand]

Because the attacker apparently shouted comments about Friday's Supreme Court decision, I'll note in this thread that a man has been charged with misdemeanor assault for slapping Rudy Giuliani on the back at a Staten Island grocery store yesterday. Here is video of the attack:



Giuliani says he was hit so hard that he felt like he'd been shot and that, if not for his strong constitution, he likely would have fallen and been knocked unconscious.

[N.E. Brigand]

Yesli Vega, who was once a police officer and now holds the position of Supervisor of Prince William County, Virginia, is the Republican challenger trying to unseat Rep. Abigail Spanberger (a centrist Democrat) in November's election.

A recording has surfaced of Supervisor Vega saying that it's more difficult for a women to be impregnated during rape than during consensual sex because "it’s not something that’s happening organically: you're forcing it." Vega also agreed with an audience member who said that pregnancy usually doesn't happen from rape "because the body shuts down in some way." She implies but does not say outright that she would ban abortion even in cases of rape and incest.

[N.E. Brigand]

The final paragraph from a story in the New Yorker about women at a Houston clinic on Friday when the news broke and they had to be turned away:

[Frelga]

"The legal concept of a 'substantial burden,' which was developed in the context of Christian faiths, does not neatly map onto a Jewish faith that does not actually impose any requirements on congregants, but instead only offers aspirational principles."

Jewish faith that does not impose any requirements on congregants? They are not called 613 aspirational principles! The nerve of these lying hypocrites is breathtaking.

Also the bold maternal leave proposal is to let women borrow 3 months of social security? Ffs, I can't even process how evil that is over how stupid it is.

[N.E. Brigand]

A report in the Dayton Daily News about challenges women are facing here now that Ohio has banned all abortions after the sixth week of pregnancy includes this quote:

"Today we saw a patient in Dayton who has cancer. Her doctors told her she would have to terminate before she received chemotherapy treatment. She will have to travel to Indiana. A mom brought her daughter in and doesn’t own a car. She will have to rent one to get her daughter to her appointment in Indianapolis later this week."

The clinic estimates that only one in fifteen abortions happens before the sixth week; many women don't even know they're pregnant then. In Indiana the cut-off currently is 13 weeks. But Indiana is likely to pass an abortion ban equally or more restrictive next week.

Is it an exaggeration to say that many Republicans want women to suffer and die?

[Eldy]

Is it an exaggeration to say that many Republicans want women to suffer and die?

I think it would be more accurate to say that most pro-lifers are either indifferent, or consider it an acceptable trade-off for saving
"unborn lives." I don't think "many" Republicans specifically want women to suffer and die, and I would call this a meaningful distinction, even if indifference produces similar results in some circumstances. I don't take pleasure in finger-wagging at people who are justifiably upset, but if nothing else, I think it's bad political strategy to interpret your opponents' beliefs as uncharitably as possible, given that it's generally helpful to convert people to your side.

[Frelga]

While the intent is not irrelevant, if acting on that intent causes easily foreseeable and quantifiable harm, then I have to assume that the harm was intended, too.

Speaking of harm, another way in which the new ruling harms both the pregnant and the unborn is the exodus of ON/GYN providers from the states where they feel they will not be able to provide life saving care.

And I do want to hear why, if the unborn are so precious, conservatives are not as interested in preventing miscarriages.

[Voronwë the Faithful]

Is it an exaggeration to say that many Republicans want women to suffer and die?

I think it would be more accurate to say that most pro-lifers are either indifferent, or consider it an acceptable trade-off for saving
"unborn lives." I don't think "many" Republicans specifically want women to suffer and die, and I would call this a meaningful distinction, even if indifference produces similar results in some circumstances. I don't take pleasure in finger-wagging at people who are justifiably upset, but if nothing else, I think it's bad political strategy to interpret your opponents' beliefs as uncharitably as possible, given that it's generally helpful to convert people to your side.

[Eldy]

And I do want to hear why, if the unborn are so precious, conservatives are not as interested in preventing miscarriages.

My cynical (one might argue uncharitable :V) answer is that it's because, whereas the most effective leaders and organizers of the anti-abortion cause once viewed the issue as a one plank in a larger, coherent pro-life philosophy (which the leadership of the Catholic Church still tries, mostly in vain, to get its adherents to support), that cause has long since come to be dominated by people treating it as a hyper-specific wedge issue around which to organize conservative political activism once being pro-segregation was no longer a good sales pitch in most of the country. Which is not to claim that all or even most ground-level activists, much less people whose political activity begins and ends with voting, view the issue in cold, strategic terms; far from it. But I think this is a major factor in why "pro-life" has come to have such an absurdly narrow meaning.

[N.E. Brigand]

I looked up what would be needed to get a new state law or a state constitutional amendment protecting the right to abortion in Ohio on the November ballot. There isn't time, unfortunately. You first need to submit 1,000 signatures and the proposed text of the Amendment to the Secretary of State, who first has to certify it, and then passes it to a board who has 10 days to review it, and if they pass it, then you have to collect a whole lot of signatures (from at least half of the state's 88 counties) and submit them not later than 125 days prior to the election. Unfortunately, we are 132 days out.

[Voronwë the Faithful]

Because the attacker apparently shouted comments about Friday's Supreme Court decision, I'll note in this thread that a man has been charged with misdemeanor assault for slapping Rudy Giuliani on the back at a Staten Island grocery store yesterday. Here is video of the attack:



Giuliani says he was hit so hard that he felt like he'd been shot and that, if not for his strong constitution, he likely would have fallen and been knocked unconscious.

Eric Adams, the Mayor of New York City (and a former police officer) thinks that the D.A. should be investigating Giuliani for falsely reporting a crime, rather than prosecuting the young man who "slapped" (read tapped) him on the back.

Mayor: Giuliani should be investigated for falsely reporting crime in alleged Staten Island grocery slap

[Frelga]

Just when you think things couldn't be worse, now I'm seeing reports of chronically ill women denied medication that may cause miscarriage or birth defects in case they become pregnant. Repeat, women who are not pregnant are denied treatment for serious conditions.

[Cerin]

A recording has surfaced of Supervisor Vega saying that it's more difficult for a women to be impregnated during rape than during consensual sex because "it’s not something that’s happening organically: you're forcing it." Vega also agreed with an audience member who said that pregnancy usually doesn't happen from rape "because the body shuts down in some way." She implies but does not say outright that she would ban abortion even in cases of rape and incest.

In 2012, saying this was enough to derail a popular Missouri Congressman's Senate bid. I remember discussing it here. But I believe he said it in a televised interview. And, he was a man (which, I suppose might have made it more offensive than coming from a woman?).

[N.E. Brigand]

For reference, here's a HOF post about Todd Akin's loss in 2012.

[Cerin]

I had forgotten he said 'legitimate rape.' Yikes.

[Voronwë the Faithful]