World News Thread

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Alatar
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Re: World News Thread

Post by Alatar »

RoseMorninStar wrote: Tue Feb 01, 2022 5:04 am I couldn't read your article Alatar, it's behind a paywall.. b
The TL;DR is basically that China and Russia are allying to avoid being told what to do by the US. That, as the only remaining superpower, the US has abused its power to control and force democracy where and when it suits them. "Democracy" here meaning friendly to the US.

Similar sentiments in this article:
https://www.nytimes.com/2021/03/29/worl ... ussia.html
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Voronwë the Faithful
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Re: World News Thread

Post by Voronwë the Faithful »

That's a sad truth, Al, but one that "Americans" (I purposefully put that in quotes) need to face.

N.E.B., that is good news, though I continue to be skeptical. Here's an article that for some reason I am able to read in the NY Times.

U.S. and Allies Close to Reviving Nuclear Deal With Iran, Officials Say
"Spirits in the shape of hawks and eagles flew ever to and from his halls; and their eyes could see to the depths of the seas, and pierce the hidden caverns beneath the world."
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Dave_LF
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Re: World News Thread

Post by Dave_LF »

The US threw away whatever moral authority it had left on the subject in January 2021--you can't fight a foreign war for democracy after you've proved you don't even want it at home.
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Re: World News Thread

Post by Frelga »

RoseMorninStar wrote: Tue Feb 01, 2022 5:04 am I couldn't read your article Alatar, it's behind a paywall.. but here's to Irish Fisherman!

How a group of Irish fishermen forced the Russian Navy into a U-turn
It's a relief that Russia is not at the point of just rolling forward regardless of Irish civilians.

(TIL that Ireland is not in NATO.)
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Voronwë the Faithful
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Re: World News Thread

Post by Voronwë the Faithful »

I split off the discussion about Russia's Invasion of Ukraine to a separate thread. If I missed any posts, or moved any in error, let me know.
"Spirits in the shape of hawks and eagles flew ever to and from his halls; and their eyes could see to the depths of the seas, and pierce the hidden caverns beneath the world."
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Re: World News Thread

Post by N.E. Brigand »

Viktor Orban, who was Hungary's prime minister first from 1998-2002 and has been that nation's leader again for twelve years since 2010, won reelection for the third consecutive time today, and apparently by a clear margin. In his victory speech, per this translation, he said that today he defeated six opponents:
1) The "left" at home
2) The "international left" abroad
3) The Brussels bureaucrats
4) George Soros
5) The international media
6) Volodymyr Zelensky
Despite Hungary being a member of NATO, Orban has been pretty friendly with Putin, and as you can see, he's also anti-Semitic.
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Re: World News Thread

Post by River »

Ick.

I was hoping, but these types are not easily dislodged. Especially since Orban seems to have taken an interest in genitals and what people do or don't do with them. That really gets the right-wingers excited. They'll put up with a lot so long as anyone who's not strictly heterosexual and conforming to whatever they define as the norms for gender and the use of genitals is kept in their "proper" place.
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Re: World News Thread

Post by N.E. Brigand »

Yikes. Per The Economist, Orban's party only got 45% of the vote for the legislature, but because of gerrymandering, they'll hold 91% of the seats.
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Re: World News Thread

Post by River »

Yikes is right. They're going to have to hit the streets to get rid of that guy. :shock:
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Re: World News Thread

Post by Frelga »

On this day in 1944




If there was anything that depressed him more than his own cynicism, it was that quite often it still wasn't as cynical as real life.

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Re: World News Thread

Post by Túrin Turambar »

Unsurprisingly, Emmanuel Macron is re-elected to a second term with around 57 or 58 percent of the vote in the run-off election, defeating National Rally's Marine Le Pen. This makes him the first French President to win a second term since Jacques Chirac defeated Le Pen's father in 2002.

A couple of observations:
-This is the second consecutive election where the choice didn't come down to a mainstream centre-left and centre-right candidate as it has in almost all elections since the War. Is this the new normal for French politics?
-Left-wing candidate Jean-Luc Mélenchon fell just short of Le Pen in the first round of voting (Macron 28%, Le Pen 23%, Mélenchon 22%). Had Mélenchon done slightly better, the run-off would have been between him and Le Pen. Mélenchon urged his supporters to vote for Macron to keep the National Rally out of power, and many did, albeit very reluctantly. I suspect a Macron-Mélenchon election wouldn't have turned out any differently, but it would have attracted far more global interest.
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Re: World News Thread

Post by N.E. Brigand »

Just before the first round election a few weeks, polls showed that Macron and Le Pen would be in a dead heat in a runoff.

Instead, he ran away with a landslide, besting her by more than 16 points.

Her showing of 42% is much better than her 33% in 2017 and her father Jean-Marie Le Pen's 17% in 2002, but it's worth remembering that, at least publicly, Marine Le Pen is not only much more moderate than her explicitly racist father (a Holocaust denier), but she has moderated her positions even further over the past five years and particularly in the past couple months after Putin invaded Ukraine. (Had she won, would she have cast her new positions aside once in power? I don't know.)

Here's an interesting look at how the French election has been covered in the New York Times. In short, they fell into the same pattern for which I have regularly criticized U.S. mainstream media coverage of American politics: lots more coverage of Le Pen than of Macron, and most of the coverage of Macron was negative.
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Re: World News Thread

Post by N.E. Brigand »

This is the fourth-largest margin of victory in France since the Fifth Republic was established in 1958:

2002 --- 82.2% Chirac vs. 17.8% Le Pen (père)
1958 --- 78.51% de Gaulle vs. 12.99% Marrane vs. 8.43% Châtelet*
2017 --- 66.1% Macron vs. 33.9% Le Pen (fille)
2022 --- 58.5% Macron vs. 41.5% Le Pen (fille)
1969 --- 58.2% Pompidou vs. 41.8% Poher
1965 --- 55.2% de Gaulle vs. 44.8% Mitterand
1988 --- 54.0% Mitterand vs. 46.0% Chirac
2007 --- 53.1% Sarkozy vs. 46.9% Royal
1995 --- 52.6% Chirac vs. 47.4% Jospin
1981 --- 51.8% Mitterand vs. 48.2% Giscard d'Estaing
2012 --- 51.6% Hollande vs. 48.4% Sarkozy
1974 --- 50.8% Giscard d'Estaing vs. 49.2% Mitterand

*France used a different system for the first presidential election of the Fifth Republic.

And yet here are some takes in the media:





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Re: World News Thread

Post by RoseMorninStar »

Marine Le Pen’s party is paying more than £10m to a Russian military contractor under US sanctions, as part of a debt restructuring agreement linked to a loan paid to the National Rally by a Moscow bank.
That she borrowed from Russia to fund her campaign probably didn't help. The world doesn't need more holocaust deniers, especially not ones in power.
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Re: World News Thread

Post by River »

Well, to be fair, Macron didn't kick her backside as hard this time. Still beat her by more than ten points, though, and most of the vote for him was really a vote against her.

It is worth pointing out that Macron is only the second French President to win reelection in 20 years. Which, given Macron's popularity, says more about the quality of his opposition than about Macron himself.
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Re: World News Thread

Post by Frelga »

As I said elsewhere, "moderate" politicians need a slogan other than "at least we aren't Nazis."
If there was anything that depressed him more than his own cynicism, it was that quite often it still wasn't as cynical as real life.

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Re: World News Thread

Post by Voronwë the Faithful »

Macron himself acknowledged that his victory was underwhelming.
"Spirits in the shape of hawks and eagles flew ever to and from his halls; and their eyes could see to the depths of the seas, and pierce the hidden caverns beneath the world."
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Re: World News Thread

Post by RoseMorninStar »

I don't intend to be obtuse, but I really don't get the 'elite' label. I don't know much about Macron, but I've heard one of the objections to him is that he is 'elite'. I don't know if that is true because I don't think I understand the way the word is used in politics. They said the same of Obama.. but Obama grew up with no privilege, wealth, or influence (and I'd say more than a few strikes against him) and worked his way up.. the so called 'American Dream' compared to Trump (or even the Bushes) who had privilege, wealth, influence and were born with 'silver spoons in their mouths'. Trump insists on gold toilets (which also seem to be a big thing in Russia/among the oligarchs) yet Trump's followers (for example) express that Trump is 'like them' and has 'family values' (yadda-yadda). Yet Obama seems a much better example of 'family values' than Trump does. It puzzles me. Is this veiled code for ?? something? Racism vs. Equality?
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Re: World News Thread

Post by Túrin Turambar »

Macron is a graduate of a prestigious university, worked as an investment banker and has been in government for much of his working life, so the elite label is understandable. It isn't so much about whether someone grew up in money as whether they spent their life on the inside or the outside of the bubble.

That being said, the meaning of the word is stretched a lot. Marine Le Pen is the daughter of a high-profile public figure so it's not exactly like she's a member of the working class either.
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Re: World News Thread

Post by N.E. Brigand »

Voronwë the Faithful wrote: Mon Apr 25, 2022 6:18 pm Macron himself acknowledged that his victory was underwhelming.
Thanks for pointing that out, V.
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