Impeachment

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Voronwë the Faithful
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Re: Impeachment

Post by Voronwë the Faithful »

And Murkowski is reportedly voting no on witnesses and documents too.

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Re: Impeachment

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Murkowski's argument seems to boil down to "We don't have enough facts so we're going to refuse to find more." I'm not following the logic. Who's buying into this and why?
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Re: Impeachment

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River wrote:Murkowski's argument seems to boil down to "We don't have enough facts so we're going to refuse to find more." I'm not following the logic. Who's buying into this and why?
Trump's base.
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"Does anyone ever think about Denethor, the guy driven to madness by staying up late into the night alone in the dark staring at a flickering device he believed revealed unvarnished truth about the outside word, but which in fact showed mostly manipulated media created by a hostile power committed to portraying nothing but bad news framed in the worst possible way in order to sap hope, courage, and the will to go on? Seems like he's someone we should think about." - Dave_LF
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Voronwë the Faithful
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Re: Impeachment

Post by Voronwë the Faithful »

In hindsight, the Democrats should absolutely have included an Article of Impeachment alleging Obstruction of Justice based on the findings of the Mueller report. The only reason they didn't was political; the more moderate representatives from districts that Trump won in 2016 didn't want them. But all the so-called deficiencies that were attacked in the Articles that were presented would not have been the case. 1) It does allege a specific crime; 2) there is full record based on an independent years long investigation by a special counsel appointed by the Justice Department; and 3) they did go to court to compel testimony by the key witness, former White House Counsel Don McGahn.

This will never happen, but if I were then, I would immediately go forward with a new article of impeachment and start the process all over again.
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Re: Impeachment

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Voronwë the Faithful wrote:In hindsight, the Democrats should absolutely have included an Article of Impeachment alleging Obstruction of Justice based on the findings of the Mueller report. The only reason they didn't was political; the more moderate representatives from districts that Trump won in 2016 didn't want them. But all the so-called deficiencies that were attacked in the Articles that were presented would not have been the case. 1) It does allege a specific crime; 2) there is full record based on an independent years long investigation by a special counsel appointed by the Justice Department; and 3) they did go to court to compel testimony by the key witness, former White House Counsel Don McGahn.

This will never happen, but if I were then, I would immediately go forward with a new article of impeachment and start the process all over again.
Should also have included violations of emoluments. :nono:
The dumbest thing I've ever bought
was a 2020 planner.

"Does anyone ever think about Denethor, the guy driven to madness by staying up late into the night alone in the dark staring at a flickering device he believed revealed unvarnished truth about the outside word, but which in fact showed mostly manipulated media created by a hostile power committed to portraying nothing but bad news framed in the worst possible way in order to sap hope, courage, and the will to go on? Seems like he's someone we should think about." - Dave_LF
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Re: Impeachment

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https://www.nj.com/politics/2020/01/tru ... -done.html

Even John Kelly thinks witnesses should be called.
The dumbest thing I've ever bought
was a 2020 planner.

"Does anyone ever think about Denethor, the guy driven to madness by staying up late into the night alone in the dark staring at a flickering device he believed revealed unvarnished truth about the outside word, but which in fact showed mostly manipulated media created by a hostile power committed to portraying nothing but bad news framed in the worst possible way in order to sap hope, courage, and the will to go on? Seems like he's someone we should think about." - Dave_LF
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Re: 2020 Presidential Election

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The dumbest thing I've ever bought
was a 2020 planner.

"Does anyone ever think about Denethor, the guy driven to madness by staying up late into the night alone in the dark staring at a flickering device he believed revealed unvarnished truth about the outside word, but which in fact showed mostly manipulated media created by a hostile power committed to portraying nothing but bad news framed in the worst possible way in order to sap hope, courage, and the will to go on? Seems like he's someone we should think about." - Dave_LF
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Re: The Russia Investigations and other Trump-related cases

Post by Voronwë the Faithful »

yovargas, on Thu Sep 19, 2019 at 8:51 am wrote:
Voronwë the Faithful wrote:I suspect that eventually the details of the complaint will leak out, and Democrats will be outraged, and Republicans will be outraged at the Democrats outrage, and probably nothing will come of it.

Regardless of the outcome, I'll take that bet.
Well, something came out of it.
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Re: 2020 Presidential Election

Post by Voronwë the Faithful »

elengil wrote:Censure if not remove?
https://www.cnn.com/2020/02/03/politics ... index.html
Since Manchin's resolution would need McConnell's permission to get a vote, it is extremely unlikely to happen. I'd love to see how many GOP senators would actually vote for it.
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Re: Impeachment

Post by Voronwë the Faithful »

Doug Jones of Alabama announced that he will vote to convict and remove Trump. That will obviously be a very unpopular decision in heavily Republican Alabama, and could well seal Jones' own fate in his reelection campaign this year (although admittedly he faced an uphill battle either way). I give him credit for doing what he thinks was right, nonetheless.

The one remaining undecided (or at least unannounced) Senator is Joe Manchin, from even more heavily Republican West Virginia. Manchin, you will recall, was the one Democrat to vote to confirm Kavanaugh. I suspect that he will be the one Democrat to vote to acquit Trump as well.

ETA: Actually Kyrsten Sinema has also not said how she will vote, along with Mitt Romney. I seriously doubt that Romney will become the lone Republican to vote to convict Trump as it would likely make him a complete pariah in his party. I wouldn't be that surprised if Sinema votes to acquit though.
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Re: Impeachment

Post by Faramond »

Romney is voting to convict on one count.
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Re: Impeachment

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Voronwë the Faithful
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Re: Impeachment

Post by Voronwë the Faithful »

Wow! Needless to say, I am surprised. I really didn't think he would go through with it. I have to say, I'm impressed.
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Re: Impeachment

Post by Voronwë the Faithful »

He is, literally, the first Senator in U.S. history to vote to convict and remove a president of his own party.

Did I say "Wow!"? That doesn't even come close to expressing my surprise.
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Re: Impeachment

Post by Voronwë the Faithful »

Damn, watching Romney's announcement of his vote made me tear up.
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Re: Impeachment

Post by Griffon64 »

Haven't watched his announcement yet.

The thing about Romney I think, is that his faith and his morals are real. Which is more than I can say for the hypocrites clustering under the banner of Christian faith yet voicing full-throated support for Trump's cruel side. And this is probably where he needs to watch his back when it comes to large swathes of his current political home. I'd like to see him run as an independent - he shouldn't have any trouble getting elected in Utah and that would free him up to act on his morals more.

Once morals become partisan, I fear that ... well, that's a sentence that is hard to complete. Morals is supposed to be something that humanity shares.
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Re: Impeachment

Post by RoseMorninStar »

Voronwë the Faithful wrote:Damn, watching Romney's announcement of his vote made me tear up.
It certainly was a profile in courage. And honor. Honesty. I greatly admire those traits.
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Re: Impeachment

Post by yovargas »

Wonder why he voted yes on abuse of power but not on obstruction.
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Re: Impeachment

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https://www.cbsnews.com/news/susan-coll ... d=81760957

I wonder what on earth Collins thinks Trump learned... other than the very stark lesson "you can do whatever you want and noone will ever hold you accountable"... he certainly seems to have gotten that memo loud and clear.
The dumbest thing I've ever bought
was a 2020 planner.

"Does anyone ever think about Denethor, the guy driven to madness by staying up late into the night alone in the dark staring at a flickering device he believed revealed unvarnished truth about the outside word, but which in fact showed mostly manipulated media created by a hostile power committed to portraying nothing but bad news framed in the worst possible way in order to sap hope, courage, and the will to go on? Seems like he's someone we should think about." - Dave_LF
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Voronwë the Faithful
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Re: Impeachment

Post by Voronwë the Faithful »

All the Democrats voted to convict on both charges.

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