Impeachment

The place for measured discourse about politics and current events, including developments in science and medicine.
Post Reply
User avatar
RoseMorninStar
Posts: 9905
Joined: Fri Dec 14, 2007 11:07 am
Location: North Shire

Re: Impeachment

Post by RoseMorninStar »

Appropriate cartoon Suny. And sad because it's far too true. In Nixon's day the saying was, 'What did the President know & when did he know it' but we know what Trump knew and when he knew it AND that he was in on it from the beginning but the GOP still won't stand up for the constitution. They are failing on their duty to country.

I read an article which states that a large percentage of Republicans only have one news source/only trust one news source (FOX). I couldn't help but recall that is the goal of anyone trying to brainwash a group of people is to tell them they cannot trust anyone else/any other source of information. It m called an image to mind which featured the Wizard of Oz (the curtain is FOX news) and FOX news viewers are being told: 'don't look behind the curtain'.
My heart is forever in the Shire.
User avatar
River
bioalchemist
Posts: 13198
Joined: Thu Sep 20, 2007 1:08 am
Location: the dry land

Re: Impeachment

Post by River »

I believe it was Roger Ailes who stated that one of the goals of Fox News was to prevent another Nixon situation.
When you can do nothing what can you do?
User avatar
RoseMorninStar
Posts: 9905
Joined: Fri Dec 14, 2007 11:07 am
Location: North Shire

Re: Impeachment

Post by RoseMorninStar »

River, yes, it was Ailes.
My heart is forever in the Shire.
User avatar
Voronwë the Faithful
At the intersection of here and now
Posts: 41939
Joined: Mon Nov 21, 2005 1:41 am
Contact:

Re: Impeachment

Post by Voronwë the Faithful »

Trump Tied Ukraine Aid to Inquiries He Sought, Bolton Book Says

Not that it will make any difference in terms of the impeachment, most likely (although you would think it would make a few of the GOP senators want to hear what he has to say under oath), but if this comes out just before the election, it could help swing just enough votes.

Or maybe not.
"Spirits in the shape of hawks and eagles flew ever to and from his halls; and their eyes could see to the depths of the seas, and pierce the hidden caverns beneath the world."
User avatar
RoseMorninStar
Posts: 9905
Joined: Fri Dec 14, 2007 11:07 am
Location: North Shire

Re: Impeachment

Post by RoseMorninStar »

I was just reading about Bolton's book and I was wondering if this may give some senators pause. Everything Trump has done will come out eventually, seemingly sooner than later. If Senators have abdicated their duty/not acted with due diligence, it could backfire on them. It is obvious that many are not taking their oaths seriously and/or are acting on behalf of the President. Some senators were sleeping or doing crossword puzzles. McConnell & a few others have blatantly stated they are working with the White House rather than being objective. Not that I'm shocked, but the blatant disregard for even the appearance of doing their job is pathetic and just awful.
My heart is forever in the Shire.
User avatar
Griffon64
Posts: 3724
Joined: Tue Dec 27, 2005 6:02 am

Re: Impeachment

Post by Griffon64 »

River wrote:I believe it was Roger Ailes who stated that one of the goals of Fox News was to prevent another Nixon situation.
In which way? Prevent it as in, be a mouthpiece to prevent future Republican presidents from being impeached, whatever it takes, lying included? Or prevent it as in, hold future presidents to a high standard of ethical behavior and the truth so they don't become impeachable?
User avatar
RoseMorninStar
Posts: 9905
Joined: Fri Dec 14, 2007 11:07 am
Location: North Shire

Re: Impeachment

Post by RoseMorninStar »

Griffon64 wrote:
River wrote:I believe it was Roger Ailes who stated that one of the goals of Fox News was to prevent another Nixon situation.
In which way? Prevent it as in, be a mouthpiece to prevent future Republican presidents from being impeached, whatever it takes, lying included? Or prevent it as in, hold future presidents to a high standard of ethical behavior and the truth so they don't become impeachable?
It's fairly well documented that Roger Ailes, who was a media consultant for Richard Nixon, felt that a network specifically set up to advance the Republican political agenda would prevent a repeat of what happened to Nixon with another Republican president. In other words, prevent a Republican president from being held accountable for his (impeachable) actions. A 318 page memo found in the Richard Nixon Library: 'A Plan For Putting the GOP on TV News' details his plan.

https://gawker.com/5814150/roger-ailes- ... r-fox-news
My heart is forever in the Shire.
User avatar
Griffon64
Posts: 3724
Joined: Tue Dec 27, 2005 6:02 am

Re: Impeachment

Post by Griffon64 »

Would have been nicer if it was the other one. Well, props to him, he did what he said he would.
User avatar
RoseMorninStar
Posts: 9905
Joined: Fri Dec 14, 2007 11:07 am
Location: North Shire

Re: Impeachment

Post by RoseMorninStar »

Propaganda is very effective.
My heart is forever in the Shire.
User avatar
Griffon64
Posts: 3724
Joined: Tue Dec 27, 2005 6:02 am

Re: Impeachment

Post by Griffon64 »

I grew up in a non-democratic country with very effective government mouthpiece media so yes: propaganda is very, very effective and very, very harmful.
User avatar
RoseMorninStar
Posts: 9905
Joined: Fri Dec 14, 2007 11:07 am
Location: North Shire

Re: Impeachment

Post by RoseMorninStar »

It's really quite absurd that Trump is in daily conversation with FOX news and Sean Hannity, et al so as to coordinate their propaganda & spin. People would have blown a gasket if Obama had done that with, say, Anderson Cooper &/or Rachel Maddow and rightly so.
My heart is forever in the Shire.
User avatar
yovargas
I miss Prim ...
Posts: 15011
Joined: Thu Dec 08, 2005 12:13 am
Location: Florida

Re: Impeachment

Post by yovargas »

Absolutely gobsmacked that a professional lawyer went on the Senate floor and made this argument:



The short version: All politicians believe that their election is in the public interest so if they offer a "quo" in return for assistance in getting elected, that quo is inherently legal because it done for the public interest
I wanna love somebody but I don't know how
I wanna throw my body in the river and drown
-The Decemberists


Image
User avatar
elengil
Cat-egorical Herbitual Creativi-Tea
Posts: 6142
Joined: Thu Dec 01, 2005 11:45 pm
Location: Small drinking village with a severe fishing problem

Re: Impeachment

Post by elengil »

Anything it takes to be reelected is legal Yov! Anything. Purging the wrong voters, requesting foreign interference, breaking campaign finance laws, soon it'll be suspending elections or putting your opponents in jail, because then they can't prevent you from being reelected. All legal. totally legit. Can't be impeached for it. Nope.
The dumbest thing I've ever bought
was a 2020 planner.

"Does anyone ever think about Denethor, the guy driven to madness by staying up late into the night alone in the dark staring at a flickering device he believed revealed unvarnished truth about the outside word, but which in fact showed mostly manipulated media created by a hostile power committed to portraying nothing but bad news framed in the worst possible way in order to sap hope, courage, and the will to go on? Seems like he's someone we should think about." - Dave_LF
User avatar
Voronwë the Faithful
At the intersection of here and now
Posts: 41939
Joined: Mon Nov 21, 2005 1:41 am
Contact:

Re: Impeachment

Post by Voronwë the Faithful »

And it even seemed effective at convincing wavering Senators. That's even more gobsmacking.
"Spirits in the shape of hawks and eagles flew ever to and from his halls; and their eyes could see to the depths of the seas, and pierce the hidden caverns beneath the world."
User avatar
elengil
Cat-egorical Herbitual Creativi-Tea
Posts: 6142
Joined: Thu Dec 01, 2005 11:45 pm
Location: Small drinking village with a severe fishing problem

Re: Impeachment

Post by elengil »

They're still trying to publicly 'out' the whistle-blower.
https://www.politico.com/news/2020/01/2 ... ons-109292

:nono:
The dumbest thing I've ever bought
was a 2020 planner.

"Does anyone ever think about Denethor, the guy driven to madness by staying up late into the night alone in the dark staring at a flickering device he believed revealed unvarnished truth about the outside word, but which in fact showed mostly manipulated media created by a hostile power committed to portraying nothing but bad news framed in the worst possible way in order to sap hope, courage, and the will to go on? Seems like he's someone we should think about." - Dave_LF
User avatar
Voronwë the Faithful
At the intersection of here and now
Posts: 41939
Joined: Mon Nov 21, 2005 1:41 am
Contact:

Re: Impeachment

Post by Voronwë the Faithful »

Well, you asked about John Roberts' role. That was about the only substantive thing that he has done so far (other than scolding both sides at 1:00 a.m. of the first day (actually technically the next day) of the trial.

I still think there is chance that if there are three GOP senators that vote for witnesses he might break the 50-50 tie, much as he doesn't want to. Though most commentators seem to disagree.
"Spirits in the shape of hawks and eagles flew ever to and from his halls; and their eyes could see to the depths of the seas, and pierce the hidden caverns beneath the world."
User avatar
elengil
Cat-egorical Herbitual Creativi-Tea
Posts: 6142
Joined: Thu Dec 01, 2005 11:45 pm
Location: Small drinking village with a severe fishing problem

Re: Impeachment

Post by elengil »

Voronwë the Faithful wrote:Well, you asked about John Roberts' role. That was about the only substantive thing that he has done so far (other than scolding both sides at 1:00 a.m. of the first day (actually technically the next day) of the trial.

I still think there is chance that if there are three GOP senators that vote for witnesses he might break the 50-50 tie, much as he doesn't want to. Though most commentators seem to disagree.
I thought the senate was sitting at 99 at the moment? Wasn't someone not present? So a 50/50 tie wouldn't even be possible?
The dumbest thing I've ever bought
was a 2020 planner.

"Does anyone ever think about Denethor, the guy driven to madness by staying up late into the night alone in the dark staring at a flickering device he believed revealed unvarnished truth about the outside word, but which in fact showed mostly manipulated media created by a hostile power committed to portraying nothing but bad news framed in the worst possible way in order to sap hope, courage, and the will to go on? Seems like he's someone we should think about." - Dave_LF
User avatar
Voronwë the Faithful
At the intersection of here and now
Posts: 41939
Joined: Mon Nov 21, 2005 1:41 am
Contact:

Re: Impeachment

Post by Voronwë the Faithful »

No, they are all there. I think what you are thinking of is that Roberts swore in 99 Senators when the trial officially started. James Inhofe was absent because of a family emergency and was sworn in separately before the trial began in earnest.
"Spirits in the shape of hawks and eagles flew ever to and from his halls; and their eyes could see to the depths of the seas, and pierce the hidden caverns beneath the world."
User avatar
elengil
Cat-egorical Herbitual Creativi-Tea
Posts: 6142
Joined: Thu Dec 01, 2005 11:45 pm
Location: Small drinking village with a severe fishing problem

Re: Impeachment

Post by elengil »

That's probably what got stuck in my head, yeah. Thanks.
The dumbest thing I've ever bought
was a 2020 planner.

"Does anyone ever think about Denethor, the guy driven to madness by staying up late into the night alone in the dark staring at a flickering device he believed revealed unvarnished truth about the outside word, but which in fact showed mostly manipulated media created by a hostile power committed to portraying nothing but bad news framed in the worst possible way in order to sap hope, courage, and the will to go on? Seems like he's someone we should think about." - Dave_LF
User avatar
Voronwë the Faithful
At the intersection of here and now
Posts: 41939
Joined: Mon Nov 21, 2005 1:41 am
Contact:

Re: Impeachment

Post by Voronwë the Faithful »

There was another question today from a Senator from Kentucky (presumably Sen. Paul, though it could have been McConnell himself) that Chief Justice Roberts refused to read.
"Spirits in the shape of hawks and eagles flew ever to and from his halls; and their eyes could see to the depths of the seas, and pierce the hidden caverns beneath the world."
Post Reply