2020 Presidential Election

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Faramond
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Re: 2020 Presidential Election

Post by Faramond »

No, that's not what "My Kevin" refers to, Voronwë. That's what Trump calls McCarthy frequently.

https://www.politico.com/story/2017/02/ ... thy-234623
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Voronwë the Faithful
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Re: 2020 Presidential Election

Post by Voronwë the Faithful »

Ah, okay. I didn't know that!
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River
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Re: 2020 Presidential Election

Post by River »

Y'know, people talk all the time about how squicky Trump is around women, but he's kinda gross around men too. Comments about their looks. This "My Kevin" thing. Comey's reported fear that he'd get a completely inappropriate hug. At some point, the public should address how Trump's sense of boundaries is just nasty.

Anyway, regarding the election, I'm not sure "Sorry, I'm a sitting Senator and I need to do sitting Senator things right now" is going to be a terrible black mark for Sanders or Warren heading into the caucuses and primaries.
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Griffon64
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Re: 2020 Presidential Election

Post by Griffon64 »

River wrote:Y'know, people talk all the time about how squicky Trump is around women, but he's kinda gross around men too. Comments about their looks. This "My Kevin" thing. Comey's reported fear that he'd get a completely inappropriate hug. At some point, the public should address how Trump's sense of boundaries is just nasty.
All that stuff is part of the old-school rubbish about "dominating" that he does: horizontal handshakes. This pulling and hugging stuff. The too-long tie. The awkward grimaces and poses while sitting. The overly familiar or childishly hostile name-calling.

At some time I suppose he read one of those paperback books printed on razor-thin paper with the bad artwork that promises that "This is how you win a deal!" or whatever, and now he's acting out these awkward, unnatural sequences every time he interacts with someone.

But hey, 60+ million Americans got a gander and said "That's where I'm at, give me more." My brain goes wugga-wugga every time I think of people I used to think were ... well ... were ... ( you know what I mean. Not Trump supporters. With all the subtext that goes into such a statement ), but who adore the man and feverishly support him.
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Re: 2020 Presidential Election

Post by Frelga »

Voronwë the Faithful wrote:I'm not sure if this is what you are referring to, but all of the snakes that I have been seeing are coming from Sanders supporters, directed at Warren. And those are the nice comments.
What is the probability that much of it is coming from professional trolls paid by a foreign government?

Very high probability, is the answer.
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Cerin
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Re: 2020 Presidential Election

Post by Cerin »

Had I been the debate moderator, I would have asked, 'Sen. Warren, did you authorize the leak of your 2018 private conversation with Sen. Sanders?'

Because this, to me, is the key to understanding that situation. If it was a calculation on Warren's part, to throw a wrench into Sanders' recent rise in the polls, it may come at the expense of future cooperation between the Warren and Sanders' camps.

If the leakers leaked on their own initiative, Warren would have had the option to simply say she had no comment, as it was a private conversation.

I think the whole thing was clumsy and reflects more poorly on Warren than it does on Sanders. She is shown to be a divulger of private conversations and willing to engage in a 'gotcha' moment with someone she called a friend. And her refusal of the handshake makes it seem as though she is the injured party, when it is Sanders' friendship/confidence that was betrayed. I guess they aren't 'friends' anymore.
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Cerin
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Re: 2020 Presidential Election

Post by Cerin »

Sanders leads Biden in a national poll for the first time (within margin of error).

Of course, it's only one poll.

It would seem that the ambush of Bernie in the debate did not bear fruit. They now list Warren as a second-tier candidate.

https://www.cnn.com/2020/01/22/politics ... index.html
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Re: 2020 Presidential Election

Post by elengil »

I was quite irritated with Clinton's jab. Unnecessary, unproductive, and seemed (to me) to be born perhaps out of bitterness over 2016.
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Voronwë the Faithful
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Re: 2020 Presidential Election

Post by Voronwë the Faithful »

elengil wrote:I was quite irritated with Clinton's jab. Unnecessary, unproductive, and seemed (to me) to be born perhaps out of bitterness over 2016.
Yes, how dare she tell the truth! People tend to forget just how much of a fringe actor Sanders was before 2016, how roundly disliked he was by virtually everyone on both sides of the aisle who paid attention to politics, and how utterly ineffective he has always been as both a Congressman and as a Senator. Clinton is also correct that he is a career politician, one who has always been wiling to play dirty (as Vermont's most recent Democratic governor, Pete Shumlin, notes: https://thehill.com/homenews/campaign/4 ... play-dirty

I don't see any reason to believe that Sanders would be any more effective as president then he has been as a Senator or as a Congressman. About the best thing that I can say about him is that he is not Donald Trump.
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River
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Re: 2020 Presidential Election

Post by River »

Voronwë the Faithful wrote: Yes, how dare she tell the truth!
It's a classic way to get in trouble, actually. No one likes truth during an election season. It's divisive or something.
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Cerin
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Re: 2020 Presidential Election

Post by Cerin »

Does no one else see the irony in Hillary Clinton criticizing someone as a career politician whom nobody likes? Pot, kettle?
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Re: 2020 Presidential Election

Post by Alatar »

Cerin wrote:Does no one else see the irony in Hillary Clinton criticizing someone as a career politician whom nobody likes? Pot, kettle?
I did . :)
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Re: 2020 Presidential Election

Post by RoseMorninStar »

DP
Last edited by RoseMorninStar on Thu Jan 23, 2020 2:52 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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RoseMorninStar
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Re: 2020 Presidential Election

Post by RoseMorninStar »

Hillary isn't exactly what I'd call a career politician. While she has long been a public figure, she was not elected to any office until 2001 (serving as Senator from New York (2001-2009) and the 67th US Secretary of State (2009–2013), while she may not be a 'loved public figure, she did get millions more votes than Trump and certainly has more experience and knowledge of our laws, government policy, and diplomacy.
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elengil
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Re: 2020 Presidential Election

Post by elengil »

Rose, I agree Clinton is miles ahead of Trump, but my problem is the snark at Sanders.

I honestly have no problem with "career" politicians if they show themselves working for their constituents. That Hill article just seemed to be a lot of gossip with no substance. Literally, it was one politician making opinion claims, nothing more.

Yes, I actually do agree that Sanders running on the Democratic ticket is shady, but I also acknowledge that an independent in this country has zero chances because of how our system has been set up. It makes sense to run on the Democratic ticket.

No politician, no person, is perfect. And yes, we absolutely should hold them accountable when they mess up. But if "we" want someone other than Trump, then as several outlets have said of Sanders with regard to the Warren comment, we need to stop doing the oppositions job for them.
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was a 2020 planner.

"Does anyone ever think about Denethor, the guy driven to madness by staying up late into the night alone in the dark staring at a flickering device he believed revealed unvarnished truth about the outside word, but which in fact showed mostly manipulated media created by a hostile power committed to portraying nothing but bad news framed in the worst possible way in order to sap hope, courage, and the will to go on? Seems like he's someone we should think about." - Dave_LF
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Voronwë the Faithful
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Re: 2020 Presidential Election

Post by Voronwë the Faithful »

That's rich, given that Sanders' actions in 2016 directly led to Trump's election, and he is the only candidate in the Democratic field that continues to engage in backhanded attacks on his opponents, such as spreading a misleading video that falsely claims that Biden wants to cut social security.
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yovargas
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Re: 2020 Presidential Election

Post by yovargas »

elengil wrote:
No politician, no person, is perfect. And yes, we absolutely should hold them accountable when they mess up. But if "we" want someone other than Trump, then as several outlets have said of Sanders with regard to the Warren comment, we need to stop doing the oppositions job for them.
Without knowing exactly who said what about who (cuz I don't really care), this sounds too much like advocating for nobody to ever criticize any of the Democrats.
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elengil
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Re: 2020 Presidential Election

Post by elengil »

yovargas wrote: Without knowing exactly who said what about who (cuz I don't really care), this sounds too much like advocating for nobody to ever criticize any of the Democrats.
Legit criticism of positions and actions is not the same as "nobody likes him". That's just childish.
The dumbest thing I've ever bought
was a 2020 planner.

"Does anyone ever think about Denethor, the guy driven to madness by staying up late into the night alone in the dark staring at a flickering device he believed revealed unvarnished truth about the outside word, but which in fact showed mostly manipulated media created by a hostile power committed to portraying nothing but bad news framed in the worst possible way in order to sap hope, courage, and the will to go on? Seems like he's someone we should think about." - Dave_LF
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Voronwë the Faithful
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Re: 2020 Presidential Election

Post by Voronwë the Faithful »

Accept, again, for the fact that it is true. But the truth is often childish.
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RoseMorninStar
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Re: 2020 Presidential Election

Post by RoseMorninStar »

I did not hear/read the snarky remark so I'm not going to comment on that. I was pointing out that calling Hilary a 'career politician' (especially used as a smear) isn't valid, no matter what one thinks of her personally. I doubt anyone would call a man with 12 years of elected public service a 'career politician' when the person in question is well into the later half of their life. The office of President should not be a 'no experience necessary' role. A good candidate should have served in some other public service capacity or have studied law/constitution, etc.. Someone who is used to serving their own self-interest/business/family is likely not a good choice especially when they have little interest or grasp of our constitution, laws, and processes.
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