2020 Presidential Election

The place for measured discourse about politics and current events, including developments in science and medicine.
Post Reply
User avatar
Alatar
of Vinyamar
Posts: 10164
Joined: Thu Dec 01, 2005 11:39 pm
Location: Ireland
Contact:

Re: 2020 Presidential Election

Post by Alatar »

That's obscene.
Image
The Vinyamars on Stage! This time at Bag End
User avatar
Cerin
Posts: 6384
Joined: Mon Nov 21, 2005 3:10 am

Re: 2020 Presidential Election

Post by Cerin »

Yes. In the U.S. we call it 'free speech.' Bloomberg has said he is willing to spend $550 million (I'm not sure if that's just to get the nomination, or includes the general election).
Avatar photo by Richard Lykes, used with permission.
User avatar
elengil
Cat-egorical Herbitual Creativi-Tea
Posts: 6129
Joined: Thu Dec 01, 2005 11:45 pm
Location: Small drinking village with a severe fishing problem

Re: 2020 Presidential Election

Post by elengil »

All the free speech you can afford. Just like justice and health.
The dumbest thing I've ever bought
was a 2020 planner.

"Does anyone ever think about Denethor, the guy driven to madness by staying up late into the night alone in the dark staring at a flickering device he believed revealed unvarnished truth about the outside word, but which in fact showed mostly manipulated media created by a hostile power committed to portraying nothing but bad news framed in the worst possible way in order to sap hope, courage, and the will to go on? Seems like he's someone we should think about." - Dave_LF
User avatar
Sunsilver
Posts: 8025
Joined: Tue Jan 10, 2006 2:41 am
Location: In my rose garden
Contact:

Re: 2020 Presidential Election

Post by Sunsilver »

...and, of course, the military: https://www.thenation.com/article/tom-d ... you-think/

With the recent assassination of General Soleimani causing Iraq to threaten the U.S., no doubt this is going to increase yet again.
When the night has been too lonely, and the road has been too long,
And you think that love is only for the lucky and the strong,
Just remember in the winter far beneath the bitter snows,
Lies the seed, that with the sun's love, in the spring becomes The Rose.
User avatar
Túrin Turambar
Posts: 6017
Joined: Sat Dec 03, 2005 9:37 am
Location: Melbourne, Victoria

Re: 2020 Presidential Election

Post by Túrin Turambar »

It's still only one poll, though.

Current aggregation on Wikipedia
User avatar
Voronwë the Faithful
At the intersection of here and now
Posts: 41876
Joined: Mon Nov 21, 2005 1:41 am
Contact:

Re: 2020 Presidential Election

Post by Voronwë the Faithful »

I will eat my hat if Bloomberg wins (buys) the nomination.

Sent from my LG G6 using Tapatalk
"Spirits in the shape of hawks and eagles flew ever to and from his halls; and their eyes could see to the depths of the seas, and pierce the hidden caverns beneath the world."
User avatar
Frelga
Meanwhile...
Posts: 20800
Joined: Thu Dec 01, 2005 11:31 pm
Location: Home, where else

Re: 2020 Presidential Election

Post by Frelga »

Do you even have a hat?
His philosophy was a mixture of three famous schools -- the Cynics, the Stoics and the Epicureans -- and summed up all three of them in his famous phrase, 'You can't trust any bugger further than you can throw him, and there's nothing you can do about it, so let's have a drink."

Terry Pratchett, Small Gods
User avatar
River
bioalchemist
Posts: 13194
Joined: Thu Sep 20, 2007 1:08 am
Location: the dry land

Re: 2020 Presidential Election

Post by River »

If he doesn't maybe he'll buy one just to eat it. :D
When you can do nothing what can you do?
User avatar
Inanna
Meetu's little sister
Posts: 16669
Joined: Sat Jan 07, 2006 5:03 pm

Re: 2020 Presidential Election

Post by Inanna »

I think V would look great in a Pratchett like hat.
'You just said "your getting shorter": you've obviously been drinking too much ent-draught and not enough Prim's.' - Jude
User avatar
Voronwë the Faithful
At the intersection of here and now
Posts: 41876
Joined: Mon Nov 21, 2005 1:41 am
Contact:

Re: 2020 Presidential Election

Post by Voronwë the Faithful »

I do own some hats, though Beth is more of a hat person than I am.

Sent from my LG G6 using Tapatalk
"Spirits in the shape of hawks and eagles flew ever to and from his halls; and their eyes could see to the depths of the seas, and pierce the hidden caverns beneath the world."
User avatar
Frelga
Meanwhile...
Posts: 20800
Joined: Thu Dec 01, 2005 11:31 pm
Location: Home, where else

Re: 2020 Presidential Election

Post by Frelga »

Inanna wrote:I think V would look great in a Pratchett like hat.
Indeed.
His philosophy was a mixture of three famous schools -- the Cynics, the Stoics and the Epicureans -- and summed up all three of them in his famous phrase, 'You can't trust any bugger further than you can throw him, and there's nothing you can do about it, so let's have a drink."

Terry Pratchett, Small Gods
User avatar
narya
chocolate bearer
Posts: 4448
Joined: Sat Dec 03, 2005 7:27 am
Location: Wishing I could be beachcombing, or hiking, or dragon boating
Contact:

Re: 2020 Presidential Election

Post by narya »

Think of them as adding fiber to your diet. Especially the knit ones.
In the midst of winter, I found there was, within me, an invincible summer. ~ Albert Camus
User avatar
yovargas
I miss Prim ...
Posts: 15011
Joined: Thu Dec 08, 2005 12:13 am
Location: Florida

Re: 2020 Presidential Election

Post by yovargas »

Heck, I'd eat V's hat if Bloomberg wins more than maaaybe a couple states.
I wanna love somebody but I don't know how
I wanna throw my body in the river and drown
-The Decemberists


Image
User avatar
Frelga
Meanwhile...
Posts: 20800
Joined: Thu Dec 01, 2005 11:31 pm
Location: Home, where else

Re: 2020 Presidential Election

Post by Frelga »

I would like to agree but I remember when we thought the same thing about Trump.

Does Bloomberg have any business in Moscow?
His philosophy was a mixture of three famous schools -- the Cynics, the Stoics and the Epicureans -- and summed up all three of them in his famous phrase, 'You can't trust any bugger further than you can throw him, and there's nothing you can do about it, so let's have a drink."

Terry Pratchett, Small Gods
User avatar
Griffon64
Posts: 3724
Joined: Tue Dec 27, 2005 6:02 am

Re: 2020 Presidential Election

Post by Griffon64 »

Cerin wrote:Yes. In the U.S. we call it 'free speech.' Bloomberg has said he is willing to spend $550 million (I'm not sure if that's just to get the nomination, or includes the general election).
Yeah, so I also had Alatar's reaction initially and so I had to have this conversation with an actual American yesterday. As someone who grew up in a different political & values system I get surprised by the US way of doing things sometimes, but since I live in the country, I live by its value system, and I change if there is a conflict. Indeed, the First Amendment makes no moral judgement over amplifying one's voice with money, it just guarantees free speech without controlling the mode of the speech or equalizing it in any way. That's just how the US runs its democracy. Instead, the burden is on American citizens to not be hoodwinked if the statements blasted at them via all that money are untrue, to not let the voices of the rich drown out the voices of the vast, vast majority, to not equate money with competence or knowledge or good intent, to listen and consider all points of view since the government will silence none, and so forth. It is a pretty brutal, you get what you deserve system. The government doesn't coddle.
User avatar
Voronwë the Faithful
At the intersection of here and now
Posts: 41876
Joined: Mon Nov 21, 2005 1:41 am
Contact:

Re: 2020 Presidential Election

Post by Voronwë the Faithful »

My digestive system is counting on enough Americans not getting hoodwinked by Bloomberg's money. Although I suppose if need be I could purchase a nice soy-based hat. ;)
"Spirits in the shape of hawks and eagles flew ever to and from his halls; and their eyes could see to the depths of the seas, and pierce the hidden caverns beneath the world."
User avatar
River
bioalchemist
Posts: 13194
Joined: Thu Sep 20, 2007 1:08 am
Location: the dry land

Re: 2020 Presidential Election

Post by River »

If he were less of an egoist he could be funding Democratic senatorial candidates.
When you can do nothing what can you do?
User avatar
Cerin
Posts: 6384
Joined: Mon Nov 21, 2005 3:10 am

Re: 2020 Presidential Election

Post by Cerin »

Griffon64 wrote:Indeed, the First Amendment makes no moral judgement over amplifying one's voice with money, it just guarantees free speech without controlling the mode of the speech or equalizing it in any way.
Imo, this is not a very meaningful or accurate representation of what the Constitution says about free speech. Here is the text of the First Amendment:
“Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the Government for a redress of grievances.”
To say that the First Amendment makes no moral judgement over amplifying one's voice with money implies that it mentions the idea of amplifying one's voice with money while withholding moral judgment. In fact, it says nothing about amplifying one's voice with money. In speaking of Bloomberg's expenditures, we aren't, imo, principally talking about freedom of speech. We're talking about how we will run elections. The Constitution does have something to say about that:
In Article I Section 4, the Constitution says: The times, places and manner of holding elections for Senators and Representatives, shall be prescribed in each state by the legislature thereof; but the Congress may at any time by law make or alter such regulations.
Limits on spending in elections would, imo, fall under the idea of 'manner of holding elections' and that is something that can be regulated; and in fact we have a long history in this country of attempting to legislatively control the use and corrupting influence of money in elections. Unfortunately, the idea of campaign finance was cleverly presented recently in the courts as a free speech issue, and so now we have an ever more insane system that allows rich people and moneyed interests to have an inordinate amount of influence over elections, essentially thwarting the idea of everyone in a democracy having an equal say. It is not 'just how the U.S. runs it's democracy.' It's an example of how the Constitution can be manipulated and contorted to bizarre ends. Most nations manage to hold elections in a sane manner that recognizes the need to control the influence of money, but that's another area in which we haven't managed to join the civilized world.
Avatar photo by Richard Lykes, used with permission.
User avatar
elengil
Cat-egorical Herbitual Creativi-Tea
Posts: 6129
Joined: Thu Dec 01, 2005 11:45 pm
Location: Small drinking village with a severe fishing problem

Re: 2020 Presidential Election

Post by elengil »

Cerin wrote: Most nations manage to hold elections in a sane manner that recognizes the need to control the influence of money, but that's another area in which we haven't managed to join the civilized world.
So true. :nono:
Top it off with the gerrymandering and the voter registration purges and we've almost lost any semblance of being a democracy in terms of a government by the people.
The dumbest thing I've ever bought
was a 2020 planner.

"Does anyone ever think about Denethor, the guy driven to madness by staying up late into the night alone in the dark staring at a flickering device he believed revealed unvarnished truth about the outside word, but which in fact showed mostly manipulated media created by a hostile power committed to portraying nothing but bad news framed in the worst possible way in order to sap hope, courage, and the will to go on? Seems like he's someone we should think about." - Dave_LF
User avatar
yovargas
I miss Prim ...
Posts: 15011
Joined: Thu Dec 08, 2005 12:13 am
Location: Florida

Re: 2020 Presidential Election

Post by yovargas »

Cerin wrote:
Limits on spending in elections would, imo, fall under the idea of 'manner of holding elections' and that is something that can be regulated; and in fact we have a long history in this country of attempting to legislatively control the use and corrupting influence of money in elections.
Do you know if this particular clause has been interpreted that way by the courts, or is this your interpretation?
I wanna love somebody but I don't know how
I wanna throw my body in the river and drown
-The Decemberists


Image
Post Reply