Impeachment

[Frelga]

To be precise, Lt. Col. Vindman, a Purple Heart recipient, is being smeared as unpatriotic because he is a Ukrainian-born Jew. How I feel about that will be left as an exercise for the reader.

[Voronwë the Faithful]

Who emigrated to the U.S. when he was three. And as a result is being called a spy for Ukraine because, as the top Ukrainian expert on the NSC, he interacted with Ukrainian officials.

You really can't make this stuff up. (Unless you are Robert Ludlum, of course. And he is dead.)

[yovargas]

Clearly you can make this stuff up, if you are a member of the Trump & Friends.

[Voronwë the Faithful]

But … its going to backfire on them. Really, it is.

[Griffon64]

I'd like to believe it would but I'm not so sure. How do you think it might backfire, V?

[RoseMorninStar]

I can't believe this is happening to our country in my worst nightmare.. and I had a pretty bad one last night about Putin. At least THAT wasn't real.

FOX news is nothing but a propaganda and conspiracy theory channel.

[Frelga]

But … its going to backfire on them. Really, it is.

It hasn't so far.

[Voronwë the Faithful]

Nope. But it is going to.

[RoseMorninStar]

Nope. But it is going to.

You must be an optimist. I have more dread.

[Voronwë the Faithful]

Actually, I'm a cynical pessimist, but I have a gut feeling, which I have learned over the years to trust.

[Voronwë the Faithful]

This article (it may be the same one Voronwë linked to above) reports 'Democrats' as saying this is not a formal vote to authorize an impeachment inquiry, which is the hook the Republicans were hanging their non-cooperation on. The vote is to formalize procedures for public hearings. I don't have high hopes that the media will make this distinction going forward, based on headlines I've seen and the fact that this article contradicts its own information in saying that the Republicans will lose a talking point. They don't actually lose their talking point, as they will still not have the vote authorizing the inquiry and therefore can still make the same claim of illegitimacy.


https://www.cnn.com/2019/10/28/politics ... index.html

That's a distinction without meaning. The resolution calls for everything that the GOP has been asking for: a vote of the full House authorizing the process, public hearings, subpoena power for the opposition party, the right of the president to have representation at the hearings, to request witness or other evidence be presented, and to be able to cross-examine witnesses. Of course that hasn't stopped the White House and its allies from blasting the resolution.

You must be an optimist. I have more dread.

Consider what these public hearings are going to be like. This isn't going to be a convicted felon like Michael Cohen (convicted of lying to Congress, among other things) or a frankly not as sharp as he used to be and not really willing to engage Robert Mueller. This is going to be West Point graduate Bill Taylor with his 50 years of experience serving the country describing exactly what was happening in the dealings with Ukraine in calm and exact detail. It is going to be Col. Vindman, wearing his full uniform complete with medals and campaign ribbons, describing why he and other professionals who were listening to the phone call were so concerned about it. It will be Trump supporter Gordon Sondland, trying to play both sides of the street in order to disguise his own culpibility. It may well be arch-conservative John Bolton describing why he thought Rudy Giuliani was conducting "drug deals" and was a "hand grenade". And worst of all (for the president) Giuliani himself may eventually get called to testify.

In response, what is the defense going to be. "Ambassador Taylor, you're a Never-Trumper, aren't you?" "No, Mr. Sekulow, I'm a patriot." "Col. Vindman, are a Ukrainian spy?" "No, Mr. Cipollone, I love the United States, the country I have fought for; the country I was wounded for."

All in the public eye. It is going to be epic.

[RoseMorninStar]

V, you have the advantage of experience on how this may play out in a court room, which I do not. I don't even watch courtroom dramas on TV, so... I'm a neophyte in that area. If it's as riveting & spectacular as you paint it, Trump should be thrilled with the ratings. It will be like something out of central casting.

[River]

Vindman in a theoretical hearing: I witnessed the following...<lays it out>.

Trump's flying monkey: But are you really an American, though?

Vindman:...<polite and professional version of WTFITS??>

To be precise, Lt. Col. Vindman, a Purple Heart recipient, is being smeared as unpatriotic because he is a Ukrainian-born Jew. How I feel about that will be left as an exercise for the reader.

It's literally the best they can come up with. If you aren't a political appointee, it takes a lot to get a job in the White House. Guys like Vindman are of impeccable character, so the only line of attack is complete and utter bullshit that doesn't even stand up to an iota of scrutiny. These bullshit attacks do reveal some things about the people making them, though.

[Voronwë the Faithful]

They can't even make the bad argument that his testimony is "hearsay" or "second-hand knowledge" since he was actually on the call and raised concerns about it, as well as about other things that he directly witnessed.

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[Voronwë the Faithful]

Here you go, yov. Finally something about the cover-up.

National security official tells Congress he tried to add edits to White House memo about Trump Ukraine call

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[RoseMorninStar]

Considering that Trump was so involved in what was happening in Ukraine, it's curious he never met/spoke with the top expert of National security for Ukraine (Vindman) who has all of the security clearances, etc.. instead relying on Giuliani, Sondland, and these two thugs:


It speaks volumes that Trump & Co. were not looking to do something on the up & up.

[Cerin]

This article (it may be the same one Voronwë linked to above) reports 'Democrats' as saying this is not a formal vote to authorize an impeachment inquiry, which is the hook the Republicans were hanging their non-cooperation on. The vote is to formalize procedures for public hearings. I don't have high hopes that the media will make this distinction going forward, based on headlines I've seen and the fact that this article contradicts its own information in saying that the Republicans will lose a talking point. They don't actually lose their talking point, as they will still not have the vote authorizing the inquiry and therefore can still make the same claim of illegitimacy.


https://www.cnn.com/2019/10/28/politics ... index.html

That's a distinction without meaning.

Nevertheless, it is one the Speaker is making. One wonders why, since it keeps the Republican complaint alive.

https://abcnews.go.com/Politics/democra ... d=66616704

[Voronwë the Faithful]

Politics, I guess. Trying to make it somewhat more palatable for new Democratic House members in districts that voted for Mr. Trump to vote for the resolution. It is, apparently, one thing to publicly say that you are in favor of an impeachment inquiry, and something else to vote for a resolution. It appears, from the article that you posted, that there is some question as to whether they actually have the votes to pass it. Which I find distressing, but not surprising.

[Voronwë the Faithful]

Tomorrow is another big day. In addition to the scheduled vote on the resolution, and the hearing on Kupperman's lawsuit, Tim Morrison, who replaced Fiona Hill as the top Russia expert on the NSC us scheduled to testify. Both Ambassador Taylor and Col. Vindman named Morrison as having direct knowledge of Sondland's implementation of the quid pro quo policy. If he confirms that testimony that could be key.

Also, Bolton has been invited to testify next week. His lawyer has already said he won't appear voluntarily, and I'm sure that even if they subpoena him he won't appear until Kupperman's suit is resolved.

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[RoseMorninStar]

Morrison resigned today, which is interesting. The Kupperman lawsuit is odd, as he is a private citizen and the president shouldn't be able to prevent him from testifying. Some have supposed Bolton's hesitance may be that he is currently writing a book. The more information he saves for his book the better it will sell.