Escaping the Echo Chamber

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Re: Escaping the Echo Chamber

Post by Alatar »

My ideal figure is neither thin nor heavy but “curvy”. That said, figure wouldn’t be the first item on my list, if I had a list. Which I don’t. And don’t remember ever having?
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Re: Escaping the Echo Chamber

Post by yovargas »

Túrin Turambar wrote:In the spirit of this thread, is there some sort of alternative view of the post we should consider?
I think the "alternative" (by which, in this thread, I mean counter to common liberal narratives) view on this subject is that people are attracted to what they are attracted to and telling people they are bad for liking what they like (which I'm not saying is happening here but is definitely something that happens to men) is counterproductive.

That said - f*** this guy.
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Re: Escaping the Echo Chamber

Post by elengil »

By given standards, am very proud to one fugly bitch. :D
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"Does anyone ever think about Denethor, the guy driven to madness by staying up late into the night alone in the dark staring at a flickering device he believed revealed unvarnished truth about the outside word, but which in fact showed mostly manipulated media created by a hostile power committed to portraying nothing but bad news framed in the worst possible way in order to sap hope, courage, and the will to go on? Seems like he's someone we should think about." - Dave_LF
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Re: Escaping the Echo Chamber

Post by Primula Baggins »

For most people I know well, the body type they favor is the one the person they love is wearing. Who that person is is what matters most. This is why people specifying what their future SO “must” look like seems backward to me. Why narrow that down first and then hope to find an intelligent and honorable life partner among what’s left?

Start with what really matters, I’d say.
“There, peeping among the cloud-wrack above a dark tor high up in the mountains, Sam saw a white star twinkle for a while. The beauty of it smote his heart, as he looked up out of the forsaken land, and hope returned to him. For like a shaft, clear and cold, the thought pierced him that in the end the Shadow was only a small and passing thing: there was light and high beauty for ever beyond its reach.”
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Re: Escaping the Echo Chamber

Post by Frelga »

I think it depends on the person. Most people do seem to prefer some physical characteristics to others. There's a reason I married a competitive swimmer with black curly hair, and Mr. Frelga has never given a second glance to a woman thinner than Marilyn. But also some people fall in love with a person and, as a postcard sentiment has it, "spend a lifetime falling in love with the body of a beloved soul."

I agree with yov, f-- that guy, that guy is a twerp. My thesis is, however, that the majority of men who are attracted to women do not rank thinness as the top attribute of their beauty ideal. At least, I am yet to hear any man call out" get a load of those protruding ribs" or "I'd tap that thigh gap."

On the second thought, maybe I should have put this into the Body Image thread.
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Re: Escaping the Echo Chamber

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Primula Baggins wrote:For most people I know well, the body type they favor is the one the person they love is wearing. Who that person is is what matters most. This is why people specifying what their future SO “must” look like seems backward to me. Why narrow that down first and then hope to find an intelligent and honorable life partner among what’s left?

Start with what really matters, I’d say.
That's a very sweet sentiment and perhaps in a perfect world it would always be true, but I do ultimately think that physical attraction does matter and that's not going to change. If I feel zero physical attraction, there's very little chance I'll be interested in a romantic/sexual relationship no matter how lovely the person is. This seems to perhaps be a bit more true for men than women on average, but either way I don't think it's realistic to hope for people to stop caring about the physical aspects of attraction. The best we can do is encourage mature people to prioritize the interior over the exterior. A person with an amazing soul and a just decent body is a better choice than one with a decent soul and an amazing body.
I wanna love somebody but I don't know how
I wanna throw my body in the river and drown
-The Decemberists


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Re: Escaping the Echo Chamber

Post by Primula Baggins »

I meant from the perspective of already being attracted to someone—then judging them on their appearance and not pursuing the relationship. I understand and agree that physical attraction has to be there in any relationship that involves sex.
“There, peeping among the cloud-wrack above a dark tor high up in the mountains, Sam saw a white star twinkle for a while. The beauty of it smote his heart, as he looked up out of the forsaken land, and hope returned to him. For like a shaft, clear and cold, the thought pierced him that in the end the Shadow was only a small and passing thing: there was light and high beauty for ever beyond its reach.”
― J.R.R. Tolkien, The Return of the King
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Re: Escaping the Echo Chamber

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Primula Baggins wrote:I meant from the perspective of already being attracted to someone—then judging them on their appearance and not pursuing the relationship.
I don't follow what you mean. Sounds like you're saying being attracted to someone you're not attracted to. :scratch:
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I wanna throw my body in the river and drown
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Re: Escaping the Echo Chamber

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yovargas wrote:
Primula Baggins wrote:I meant from the perspective of already being attracted to someone—then judging them on their appearance and not pursuing the relationship.
I don't follow what you mean. Sounds like you're saying being attracted to someone you're not attracted to. :scratch:
I think a lot of people have heard of or known someone who did the whole "S/he would have been perfect for me if only..." or breaking up with someone just because they gained weight or something like that. Basically ignoring whatever else may attract you and focusing only on size.
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"Does anyone ever think about Denethor, the guy driven to madness by staying up late into the night alone in the dark staring at a flickering device he believed revealed unvarnished truth about the outside word, but which in fact showed mostly manipulated media created by a hostile power committed to portraying nothing but bad news framed in the worst possible way in order to sap hope, courage, and the will to go on? Seems like he's someone we should think about." - Dave_LF
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Re: Escaping the Echo Chamber

Post by Voronwë the Faithful »

Túrin Turambar wrote:In the spirit of this thread, is there some sort of alternative view of the post we should consider?
Here would be my post in the spirit of this thread.

I think that it is particularly attractive for women to wear jeans that are as ripped to pieces as possible, and for men to wear their pants hanging down below their hips so that as much of their underwear as possible is showing.

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Re: Escaping the Echo Chamber

Post by River »

I would say that the alternative view is "There's no accounting for taste." Which is what I'd say to that guy. =:)

Once upon a time I had a mental list of preferred physical attributes. However, I really just wanted a guy who could mentally and physically keep up and put up with me. My chosen mate did not check all the boxes on the physical attributes list, but he could and can keep up (except on ice skates) and put up.
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Re: Escaping the Echo Chamber

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I really don't see why its so confusing. The spirit of this thread would be to look at the kneejerk response "What a jerk" and instead say "Am I really all that evolved? Or do I still get my head turned by the petite blonde with cleavage?". Of course we all like to think we're "better" than this. But in "Escaping the Echo Chamber" you're suppose to be more critical of your own assumptions. Was "thin" first on my list of attributes? No. But I'm pretty sure it was something equally shallow. Looking back at my previous relationships, they were almost all petite and curvy. I may not have made a list, but I obviously had a "type". IS this guy just being more honest about it?
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Re: Escaping the Echo Chamber

Post by yovargas »

Alatar wrote: IS this guy just being more honest about it?

But that's not really what the issue is. If this guy had just posted, "you know, I've found I'm really only attracted to thin, feminine women", I doubt that Frelga would have bothered sharing it here.
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I wanna throw my body in the river and drown
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Re: Escaping the Echo Chamber

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yovargas wrote: But that's not really what the issue is. If this guy had just posted, "you know, I've found I'm really only attracted to thin, feminine women", I doubt that Frelga would have bothered sharing it here.
I’m not sure. I guess Frelga would have to tell us? My assumption was that she felt the guy was a shallow jerk and was asking us whether we should call that out or accept it.
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Escaping the Echo Chamber

Post by Inanna »

I think that’s a valid tenet, Al. But I never got it, until now. Really, people need to be very explicit with me.
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Re: Escaping the Echo Chamber

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I try Inanna, but I'm obviously not as articulate as I think I am!
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Re: Escaping the Echo Chamber

Post by elengil »

yovargas wrote:
Alatar wrote: IS this guy just being more honest about it?

But that's not really what the issue is. If this guy had just posted, "you know, I've found I'm really only attracted to thin, feminine women", I doubt that Frelga would have bothered sharing it here.
Right, he isn't expressing his personal preference, he's making a blanket statement about what is objectively the things that a woman must have/do/be in order to be considered beautiful.

I am fugly by his standards, but my sweetie finds me gorgeous. So yes, fuck him.
The dumbest thing I've ever bought
was a 2020 planner.

"Does anyone ever think about Denethor, the guy driven to madness by staying up late into the night alone in the dark staring at a flickering device he believed revealed unvarnished truth about the outside word, but which in fact showed mostly manipulated media created by a hostile power committed to portraying nothing but bad news framed in the worst possible way in order to sap hope, courage, and the will to go on? Seems like he's someone we should think about." - Dave_LF
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Re: Escaping the Echo Chamber

Post by Alatar »

elengil wrote: Right, he isn't expressing his personal preference, he's making a blanket statement about what is objectively the things that a woman must have/do/be in order to be considered beautiful.
Oh right, I didn't get that. I assumed he was speaking for himself.
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Re: Escaping the Echo Chamber

Post by River »

elengil wrote:
Right, he isn't expressing his personal preference, he's making a blanket statement about what is objectively the things that a woman must have/do/be in order to be considered beautiful.
And he's assuming that all men would agree with his list. It's pretty apparent right in this thread that that's just not true.

Anyway, now all the single ladies know who he is so there's that, at least.
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Re: Escaping the Echo Chamber

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Alatar wrote:
elengil wrote: Right, he isn't expressing his personal preference, he's making a blanket statement about what is objectively the things that a woman must have/do/be in order to be considered beautiful.
Oh right, I didn't get that. I assumed he was speaking for himself.
Well, he titled it "How To Be A Beautiful Woman" - he didn't title it "What I Find Beautiful In Women"

So...
The dumbest thing I've ever bought
was a 2020 planner.

"Does anyone ever think about Denethor, the guy driven to madness by staying up late into the night alone in the dark staring at a flickering device he believed revealed unvarnished truth about the outside word, but which in fact showed mostly manipulated media created by a hostile power committed to portraying nothing but bad news framed in the worst possible way in order to sap hope, courage, and the will to go on? Seems like he's someone we should think about." - Dave_LF
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