Gun Control Debate

[Teremia]

True! None of them is a gun!

[RoseMorninStar]

Oooh. Chickens. I've always kinda wanted to have chickens. Hopefully he doesn't use the gun on any of your menagerie.

[anthriel]

Well, no, I can't imagine that he would. He really is a kind and caring man, and he has grown to care about all of our animals as much as I do.

[River]

Weird how the things that make you happy are living and growing things and the thing he wants so much is, well, something of the opposite...

[anthriel]

Are you calling me a hobbit?

I don't know why he wants it so much. I just know he does. And as partners, there needs to be some flexibility on both sides. He really has shown some flexibility for 20+ years. Darn it.

Really, lots of people I know have guns in the home. It's not particularly uncommon. It's just so not ME.

[River]

Are you calling me a hobbit?

No. Unless you want me to be. There are worse things. Much worse things.

[anthriel]

Hobbits are good. Cute little buggers, with their hairy feet and their shiny vest buttons. Tough, too, when you get right down to it. Strangely tough.

[yovargas]

Part of me is very reluctant to make this post; part of me is very reluctant to not make this post. But here it is anyway....

As someone who has had depressive issues for over 20 years and who has gone through periods of frequent suicidal thoughts (not for a long time, thankfully!!), I feel very, very, very strongly that there should not be a gun in any home where someone struggles with mental health problems.

[RoseMorninStar]

Wise words yov.

[Túrin Turambar]

Part of me is very reluctant to make this post; part of me is very reluctant to not make this post. But here it is anyway....

As someone who has had depressive issues for over 20 years and who has gone through periods of frequent suicidal thoughts (not for a long time, thankfully!!), I feel very, very, very strongly that there should not be a gun in any home where someone struggles with mental health problems.

It is a difficult point to make, but I endorse this completely. I have tried shooting once or twice, but I didn't particularly like it. Which is a good thing as I've come around to the view that my bipolar disorder means that I can never own a gun or live somewhere with easy access to one. By my understanding, the number of people who actually use a gun in home defense successfully is far eclipsed by the number of people who use a gun to shoot themselves.

[Frelga]

I don't know that it's that, exactly. I do know that most of the gun deaths are suicides and that the reason men are more likely than women to commit a successful suicide is because they are more likely to use a gun. Using a gun in home defense does not have to be lethal or even involve shooting a gun.

Are home invasions a problem in your community?

I've said upthread, that the American gun debate is complicated by the fact that a large fraction of the gun control advocates appear to never have held a gun or really know much about weapons. In Soviet Russian(tm), in contrast, target practice was part of high school curriculum and little air gun ranges were scattered around bus stops and movie theaters.

That is to say, I understand why someone may think that guns are cool and enjoy shooting one, and I do think they can be owned and used responsibly.

But yeah, depression and guns sounds like a bad combination.

[Teremia]

Yes--depression, exactly--that's what I meant by the "open elevator shaft" analogy--sigh.

[anthriel]

That is to say, I understand why someone may think that guns are cool and enjoy shooting one, and I do think they can be owned and used responsibly.

I am SO glad you posted that, Frelga. Mr. Anth feels like some of my reluctance about this comes from my inexperience with guns, and he speaks to your point exactly. I, however, have handled and used guns, quite a lot actually, as a child. I don't think I have anything like your experience, but my family always had guns, and target practice in the woods was a weekly family experience. My eyesight has taken a hit since then, but I used to be a pretty good shot. Did I enjoy it? Not really, I guess. I've always had safety issues, and guns just register to me as dangerous.

Part of me is very reluctant to make this post; part of me is very reluctant to not make this post. But here it is anyway....

As someone who has had depressive issues for over 20 years and who has gone through periods of frequent suicidal thoughts (not for a long time, thankfully!!), I feel very, very, very strongly that there should not be a gun in any home where someone struggles with mental health problems.

My dear, sweet, kind friend. How... selfless of you to write that. Túrin, thank you for your words, as well; I actually didn't know how similar your diagnosis is to my son's. I need to talk to Mr. Anth about this. I know the plan is to have it in a safe, but guns-->dangerous.




My own beloved uncle, my gorgeous, smart, kind, accomplished uncle, took his own life with a gun. He had mental health issues, too. This is real stuff.

[Frelga]

I don't think I have anything like your experience, but my family always had guns, and target practice in the woods was a weekly family experience. My eyesight has taken a hit since then, but I used to be a pretty good shot. Did I enjoy it? Not really, I guess. I've always had safety issues, and guns just register to me as dangerous.

Oh, that's a lot MORE than my experience! Unless you count those air gun ranges, where we shot tiny pellets at little targets. We just got to shoot a rifle a few times a year and learn to clean the AKM, which I'm sure I couldn't do now. Boys had military camps the last year of high school, in preparation for the draft, but us girls were stuck learning first aid during that time.

I'll be honest, I think shooting a weapon is an important skill (which I don't have) and I would like my son to know how to handle a gun, if only so that he can do it safely should he encounter one. But I wouldn't have a gun in the house. I managed to break my foot on an even dry floor, I certainly don't feel up to handling a deadly weapon unsupervised.

[RoseMorninStar]

Anthy, are there any grandchildren to be considered?

Yesterday's incident in Texas (where a strong gun-advocate-for-safety-reasons shot and killed her two teen-aged daughters in a heated argument) is a very sad commentary on gun ownership/worship. Those who advocate that (for example) the people in the nightclub in Orlando should be armed-- guns and alcohol don't make a good combination. We've had several shooting deaths in my area where guns/alcohol/hot-headed arguments have erupted.

[anthriel]

No, no grandchildren yet (and my children at 20 and 21 years old had BETTER not change that answer for a while! :X)

And no, guns and alcohol do not mix. Cars and alcohol do not mix. Marital strife and alcohol do not mix. Alcohol is a catalyst for many, many bad things.

[narya]

I did not want to wade into this until I had the time to read the whole thread, so now I do, and am responding to the whole thread. I'm sorry if I'm not as light hearted, but this topic is a painful one for me, as a suicide hotline worker.

True, although amending the American constitution is so difficult that nothing less than a near-consensus will work.

Sure, but that's because it took near-consensus to get it in there in the first place. And we've managed to amend it a bunch of times anyway.

I'm still waiting for the Equal Rights Amendment to pass.

What has not been brought up until this last page is that about two thirds of gun deaths are suicides. This does not include "blue suicide" which is the act of waiving a gun or a stick in front of a police officer with the intent of dying. And most of the mass murders we've seen lately were by people who did not plan to just walk away when it was over.

While there are things we can do to limit mass murdering, such as limitations of military style guns (that are designed to kill nothing but people) and background checks and smaller magazines and better mental health care and no-fly lists, the fact remains that there are tons of guns in circulation, of all sizes, and they are being used on a daily basis for suicide. And there are lots of accidental deaths (dozens of toddlers and young children finding loaded guns in the house and shooting them off). This will only decrease if there is a smaller volume of guns. It is directly proportional.

The other thing we need to do is to change the mentality of more guns means more safety. What would be a safer society is if fewer people, both the mentally ill and the not mentally ill, both the law abiding and the law breaking, were encouraged to solve their problems without purchasing lethal weapons with the intent to kill. I personally don't own a gun because I'm not prepared to kill someone, even someone trying to steal my TV. I do spend hours each week talking with upset people on the hotline. I will never know for sure if I've prevented murders or suicides. It's not as easy as carrying a gun to shoot at a mass shooter, but I think I have a better chance of saving lives in the long run.

I know I could kill people with a bow and arrow, if I got better at it, but my intent with archery has always been to do the zen thing of getting calm and being one with the target. Not pulping someone's head. People who buy guns for the sole purpose of "feeling safe" or macho, or in control scare me. I would not do that unless I crossed that line of being willing to pass the death penalty on people who in my snap judgement deserve it. If I saw a person swaggering about with open carry, I'd wonder if they have crossed that line. Like Prim, I'd be outta there.

We used to have guns in the house, but they were my father-in-law's old hunting rifles, from when he made a living as a trapper, killing things. My in-laws would occasionally take one out of the locked gun safe to go off for a weekend of killing things (moose, mostly). The idea of taking it out myself when alone in the house at night never occurred to me. My sister-in-law, on the other hand, kept a loaded gun under her pillow. Needless to say, my kids did not visit her house unescorted.

Just like we speak of "defense" instead of "going to the Middle East and killing a bunch of people" we talk about "home defense" instead of "killing anyone who threatens to steal my TV". The gun lobby has an excellent PR department. We need to bring them down.

And here's a picture of a kitten, because that was pretty harsh.

[Lalaith]

anthy, that's a complicated issue, for sure. If you can't dissuade him, then you should probably consider the CCW class or at least an informal refresher time at the gun range so that you feel more comfortable with the gun. (Being familiar with guns doesn't make me at ease with them, but I'm not afraid of them. I don't see a gun on the table and flip out. I know people who do.) I do think shooting is fun, but I don't love it. And I'm always aware of the deadly nature of what I'm doing. So, if it were up to me, I wouldn't have guns around. Maybe 1 shotgun if I had a compelling reason.

...

Oh, and I'll edit this out later.

[Inanna]

Anthy, I just wanted to chime in and say, I recognize what a hard Spot you are in. Marriages need compromises; I can also understand your husband's perspective. He would be with his family & friends, and everyone would talk guns, and soon the talk would be to their own guns and he would be silent. It's not easy for him either when it seems to be the norm within his circle.

My family is from the defense, and in India defense officers are allowed to keep guns (after a lengthy licensing process). My grandad had one at home (now that I think about it, it's a wonder none of us kids...). I've fired a light machine gun on the army range too. So while I would never have them in my house, I would not go screaming at the sight of one.

I think you need to have clear rules. Always unloaded (no loading it even when taking it out to go to the range. Load it there). Always in a safe.

Lali, oh dear, that's HARD and Awful.

[JewelSong]

My son has a gun and takes monthly classes. He enjoys shooting and he has a concealed carry license. He is a very responsible gun-owner. Guns are locked up, ammo is in a completely separate location, etc. He has also stated that he believes that the NRA is a "terrorist organization" and that way too many people own guns who shouldn't.

I can't say whether or not I "approve" - he's a grown man and can make his own decisions. Personally, I do not believe I would ever have a gun in my home...but I do not live either in a high-crime area or an isolated rural location, both circumstances where I feel have a firearm might be a reasonable precaution.

I did take a class in shooting a .44 once. The guns were real, but they had no actual bullets...they were connected to a computer and the firing was done with a high-powered blast of air. It was very realistic and, I admit, there IS a rush when you are shooting one of those things. And I appreciate marksmanship as a skill.

I believe guns should be highly regulated and anyone who owns one should be required to be licensed and take frequent refresher classes to continue to qualify.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk