The Pope's Apology. Does it go far enough?

[Alatar]

In this case I agree with SF. The frustration with the Catholic Church is that that certain members of the hierarchy has disgraced and demeaned their office and instead of weeding that out, the Church closed ranks behind them. Nobody denies that the Church has been and can be again a great force for good. It has lost its way, but it can recover. However, it first has to recognise its problems, atone for them, and most importantly, ensure that they never happen again.

So far we have half-hearted acknowledgement, no atonement and little or no attempt to ensure no recurrence.

[JewelSong]

I also think that the gut-reaction of many faithful Catholics is to say that these allegations and accusations are due to outside factors - people who "hate' 'the church, the media, the liberals, the unfaithful...that the Church must stand against those who would bring it down.

It is this kind of thinking that led to the extent of the cover-ups in the first place. That the church must be protected at all costs and above all. Better to sacrifice the emotional well-being of children than to allow the church to look bad to the outside world.

(The article I linked to above goes into this somewhat.)

It then becomes almost impossible to objectively criticize anything the church does, because by doing so, you are criticizing the church and making it look bad. That meant you were a bad Catholic, a bad Christian. This was the horrible dilemma so many American Catholics found themselves in during the 1990s in the wake of revelations about the extent of the child abuse and the subsequent cover-up within the church.

The man responsible for much of the cover-up was Cardinal Law, who is now an Archpriest in Rome. He was not defrocked or even punished (although he finally did resign as Cardinal of Boston, )not by the church and not by the law. John Pual II was Pope at the time. And Law's statement of apology was far from anything resembling real repentance.

(From Wikipedia)Cardinal Law became the first individual shown to have actively participated in the cover-up of child molestation. Despite substantial amounts of documentation that demonstrated his deep involvement with covering up the molestation of thousands of children, Law refused to step down as Archbishop of Boston. After he left Boston, there remained a significant number of undisclosed priests in the Boston area who confessed to molesting boys, and who continue to work as priests, a situation furthered by Law's intransigence in not naming priests that he aided with their molestation.

As a result of the lawsuits, the Archdiocese of Boston lost millions of dollars in fines and settlements. It also funded the legal defense of accused priests. The archdiocese slipped into large financial deficits. The Archdiocese closed sixty-five parishes before Cardinal Law stepped down from service. In response to the scandal, over fifty priests signed a letter declaring no confidence in Cardinal Law and asking him to resign - something that had never before happened in the history of the Roman Catholic Church in America

In a statement and apology Cardinal Law said, "To all those who have suffered from my shortcomings and mistakes I both apologize and from them beg forgiveness". He remained cardinal, which is a separate appointment, and participated in the 2005 papal conclave.

So, no, I don't think Benedict is any kind of "scapegoat." I think this sh*t has been going on for a LONG time and the RCC is so entrenched in it and so worried about covering it's own (collective) ass that it is not able to make the kind of deep institutional changes necessary to both prevent it from happening again and to reclaim the trust and confidence of the people.

Deep institutional change and the RCC don't go well together. Too much power, held by too few. Too many old men who have spent their lives telling other people what to do. Too much secrecy. Too far away from Jesus' message. They have become the Pharisees.

[Lidless]

[Padme]

It were better for him that a millstone were hanged about his neck, and he cast into the sea, than that he should offend one of these little ones.


Not quite sure how the RCC interprets Luke 17:2, but this is the KJV of it.

[solicitr]

However, you can't overlook the concerted effort on the part of some to dredge up something, anything to hang on Josef Ratzinger personally, no matter how tenuous. When he was first elected there was a drive, if you recall, to paint him as a 'Nazi.' (This can't be urelated to the massive, longstanding and largely successful effort to smear Pius XII as complicit in the Holocaust).

There is an enormous reservoir of anti-Catholic bigotry out there, as any time on various blog forums makes readily apparent; and a residual reflection of this is the exclusive focus on clerical paedophelia notwithstanding the fact that far, far more children have been molested by teachers and daycare workers than by priests.

This does not of course mean that perverts in collars should be let off the hook, or wind up anywhere other than prison. It does however mean that a certain sense of perspective is called for, and a recognition that there are many groups who would love to see the Church just shut up and go away, and seek to delegitimize it by any means necessary.

[JewelSong]

However, you can't overlook the concerted effort on the part of some to dredge up something, anything to hang on Josef Ratzinger personally, no matter how tenuous.

Except that I don't think this issue is all that tenuous.

exclusive focus on clerical paedophelia notwithstanding the fact that far, far more children have been molested by teachers and daycare workers than by priests.

I would be curious as to how you know that "far, far more children" have been molested by teachers and day-care workers and etc. The estimated number of children molested by RCC clergy in Massachusetts alone numbered in the thousands.

And the point is NOT that people in all walks of life and occupations may molest children. The point is what the RCC hierarchy did (or rather, didn't do) about it.

This does not of course mean that perverts in collars should be let off the hook, or wind up anywhere other than prison.

Then, why HAVE many of them been let off the hook? Why AREN'T more of them in prison? Why are the bishops and the higher-ups who moved them from parish to parish to continue to molest not being called into account and arrested?

It does however mean that a certain sense of perspective is called for, and a recognition that there are many groups who would love to see the Church just shut up and go away, and seek to delegitimize it by any means necessary.

It is this kind of thinking that is standing in the way of the RCC changing, in my opinion. So, maybe there ARE groups that wish the church would "shut up and go away." So what? What does that have to do with the fact that the church, as an institution, covered up and hid this for YEARS? And allowed it to happen over and over again, while denying that it was happening, calling children and their parents liars and making children swear vows of "secrecy?"

By continuing to focus on the "bad people who want to hurt the church" and refusing to deal with what happened - to deal with how the church MAJORLY screwed up - you allow the church to continue along as it always has. Tacit acknowledgment that "mistakes were made" with no real sense of the damage that was inflicted and no repercussions for those who were responsible.

[Inanna]

Well said, JS.

[sauronsfinger]

Amen Jewelsong.
And Padme put it perfectly with the millstone quote.

from solicitr

a residual reflection of this is the exclusive focus on clerical paedophelia notwithstanding the fact that far, far more children have been molested by teachers and daycare workers than by priests.

There are 6,200,000+ teachers in the USA.
There are 41,600 priests in the USA.
By a rough count, that means there are 150 more times as many teachers as there are catholic priests.

To make a statement like you did ignores the reality of the numbers.

[yovargas]

Even if it turned out teachers were far more likely to molest kids, it'd be entirely besides the point.

[Cerin]

There is an enormous reservoir of anti-Catholic bigotry out there <snip>and a residual reflection of this is the exclusive focus on clerical paedophelia notwithstanding the fact that far, far more children have been molested by teachers and daycare workers than by priests.

I don't think this is a reflection of anti-Catholic bigotry, but of the fact that all of the abusive priests are part of a single entity within which a certain dynamic and mentality prevail. You can't talk about abuse by teachers, for example, and focus on a systematic effort by any one world-wide organization to protect those teachers and cover up their behavior at the expense of the lives of children. If a teacher is caught molesting a student, he/she goes to jail. When the same can be said of priests, then the focus on the RCC with respect to pedophilia will end.

[Frelga]

Exactly, yov and Cerin. There is a systematic effort by some groups to have public schools just shut down and go away. Would you accept that as an excuse for child abuse by teachers, or its coverup? Me neither.

In fact, school districts around the country are implementing stringent measures to prevent even the appearance of any sort of improper conduct. Shouldn't the church do the same?

If RCC is at all concerned about anyone outside its hierarchy, the best thing to do would be to come down on the perps like a ton of rectangular building things. Tha would send the message that the abuse is truly the doing of a few bad apples, rather than the spoiled barrel.

[solicitr]

"There is a systematic effort by some groups to have public schools just shut down and go away"???????

[Primula Baggins]

Just a reminder: if this sidetracks into a discussion of public school issues, those posts will be split off into Lasto Beth Lammen.

[Frelga]

I'll watch my step, Prim. I do think that comparing RCC's handling of child abuse to other organizations is relevant here.

Soli, More so than in regards to RCC. According to some folks who post here, public schools should be replaced by vouchers and so on. But Prim is right, that's another thread.

[Primula Baggins]

That aspect is certainly relevant, Frelga. I just wanted to prevent a digression from the thread topic.

[JewelSong]

The bottom line is this:

Yes, there are other groups where child abuse has been an issue.
Yes, teachers and boy scout leaders and day care providers have been known to abuse children.
No, child abuse is not a problem peculiar to the Roman Catholic Church.

However...

The RCC engaged in a systematic, institutionalized and wide-spread cover-up of the abuse. For decades. Involving hundreds of priests and thousands of children. And many people do not believe that it is sincere about putting an end to it, punishing the perpetrators or protecting the victims.

THAT is the issue.

[Inanna]

If RCC is at all concerned about anyone outside its hierarchy, the best thing to do would be to come down on the perps like a ton of rectangular building things.

Well said, Sgt. Detritus.

[Frelga]

I love when people get my Pratchett references.

[solicitr]

Rectangular building things:

Setting the record straight in the case of abusive Milwaukee priest Father Lawrence Murphy

Then-presiding judge for the Archdiocese of Milwaukee gives first-person account of church trial

By Fr. THOMAS BRUNDAGE, JCL

(and of course a media feeding frenzy. No demonization?)

[sauronsfinger]

this is from the first article linked to by Solicitr

The Catholic Church is probably the safest place for children at this point in history.

I guess only time will tell if that is true or not. I find it incredibly sad that the last five words needed to be added to qualify the statement. Too bad it were not true for the past 100 years also.