Swine flu
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Primula Baggins
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I'm using all my tentacular maternal skills to try to maneuver two boys off at college into getting the H1N1 shot as soon as it's available to them. My daughter will get one, and Mr. Prim will through work. I'll get one if there's enough vaccine, though this will be the first flu shot I've ever had. I just don't get exposed to as many viruses, working entirely at home, so I've never worried much about it. I think I've had the flu twice in my adult life.
“There, peeping among the cloud-wrack above a dark tor high up in the mountains, Sam saw a white star twinkle for a while. The beauty of it smote his heart, as he looked up out of the forsaken land, and hope returned to him. For like a shaft, clear and cold, the thought pierced him that in the end the Shadow was only a small and passing thing: there was light and high beauty for ever beyond its reach.”
― J.R.R. Tolkien, The Return of the King
― J.R.R. Tolkien, The Return of the King
Anyone who tries that on you better use a tranquilizer dart!River wrote:I'm going to be irresponsible. They can stick me with their needles only if they drag my kicking and screaming bum to the clinic and hold me down.
I don't do flu shots. My original thinking on this was that my immune system probably needed the practice dealing with it each year... but now I haven't been sick at all in several years, so I don't know what that means. It means I don't need flu shots, I guess! Whatever the reason.
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Primula Baggins
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Flu shots are a good idea when you get older or if there's some reason you'd be vulnerable to complications, so don't rule it out forever, Maria; flu does kill people, every single day. I will start getting them one of these years, but right now I'm not in a risky group, either.
“There, peeping among the cloud-wrack above a dark tor high up in the mountains, Sam saw a white star twinkle for a while. The beauty of it smote his heart, as he looked up out of the forsaken land, and hope returned to him. For like a shaft, clear and cold, the thought pierced him that in the end the Shadow was only a small and passing thing: there was light and high beauty for ever beyond its reach.”
― J.R.R. Tolkien, The Return of the King
― J.R.R. Tolkien, The Return of the King
I was around in 1957 so I was exposed to that flu and apparently that will have given me some immunity to this incarnation of it.
When I worked at the Seniors' centre I had to get the flu shot, my employer required it. I haven't had one for 2 years and am dithering about getting one this year. In one way I am at risk from my age and perhaps weakened immune system due to chemo, etc., but then I don't know.
I want the kids to get the shot, and intend to ask the doctor about it.
When I worked at the Seniors' centre I had to get the flu shot, my employer required it. I haven't had one for 2 years and am dithering about getting one this year. In one way I am at risk from my age and perhaps weakened immune system due to chemo, etc., but then I don't know.
I want the kids to get the shot, and intend to ask the doctor about it.
Dig deeper.
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Primula Baggins
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I'd assumed that the immunosuppressant effects of chemo would have worn off after three or four years. I should probably ask about that. 
“There, peeping among the cloud-wrack above a dark tor high up in the mountains, Sam saw a white star twinkle for a while. The beauty of it smote his heart, as he looked up out of the forsaken land, and hope returned to him. For like a shaft, clear and cold, the thought pierced him that in the end the Shadow was only a small and passing thing: there was light and high beauty for ever beyond its reach.”
― J.R.R. Tolkien, The Return of the King
― J.R.R. Tolkien, The Return of the King
Yes, there are often people who contract a type of flu they have not been immunized against, and those "failures" enter into the public rhetoric about how flu shots aren't effective. There are dozens and dozens of strains of influenza out there, all the time. The seasonal flu shot is a cocktail against a few strains, those that someone figured out were going to be prominent during a flu season. Unfortunately, there's a bunch of educated guessing going on, since the decisions about which to vaccinate against are made a year or more before that particular flu season hits. Sometimes they're wrong.
There's no doubt that there are immunization failures, but there is also no doubt that flu shots can be very effective in helping people with normal immune systems either avoid, or at least only experience attenuated effects from, the flu strains against which they have been vaccinated.
I've had the annual flu shots for 15 years, and I have never had the flu. I guess that could serve as proof that the flu shot always works, right?
Remember: seasonal flu kills tens of thousands of Americans every year. I've always been a little surprised (and irritated, I'll be honest) at how little "play" the flu gets as a killer. Regular old garden variety seaonal flu kills LOTS of people.
And we're not sure what we're in for with H1N1. It's starting out pretty mild, but the horrific Spanish Flu of 1918 (also an H1N1, btw) had a very mild spring and then, by fall, turned into an incredibly pathogenic killer, ending the lives of an estimated 50 to 100 million people worldwide. And it only lasted from March 1918 to June 1920. That's a lot of dead people in a fairly short time frame.
Here's an interesting theory about why that happened, from Wikipedia:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1918_flu_p ... adzone2-41
There's no doubt that there are immunization failures, but there is also no doubt that flu shots can be very effective in helping people with normal immune systems either avoid, or at least only experience attenuated effects from, the flu strains against which they have been vaccinated.
I've had the annual flu shots for 15 years, and I have never had the flu. I guess that could serve as proof that the flu shot always works, right?
Remember: seasonal flu kills tens of thousands of Americans every year. I've always been a little surprised (and irritated, I'll be honest) at how little "play" the flu gets as a killer. Regular old garden variety seaonal flu kills LOTS of people.
And we're not sure what we're in for with H1N1. It's starting out pretty mild, but the horrific Spanish Flu of 1918 (also an H1N1, btw) had a very mild spring and then, by fall, turned into an incredibly pathogenic killer, ending the lives of an estimated 50 to 100 million people worldwide. And it only lasted from March 1918 to June 1920. That's a lot of dead people in a fairly short time frame.
Here's an interesting theory about why that happened, from Wikipedia:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1918_flu_p ... adzone2-41
The second wave of the 1918 pandemic was much deadlier than the first. During the first wave, which began in early March, the epidemic resembled typical flu epidemics. Those at the most risk were the sick and elderly, and younger, healthier people recovered easily. But in August, when the second wave began in France, Sierra Leone and the United States,[40] the virus had mutated to a much more deadly form. This has been attributed to the circumstances of the First World War.[41] In civilian life evolutionary pressures favour a mild strain: those who get really sick stay home, but those mildly ill continue with their lives, go to work and go shopping, preferentially spreading the mild strain. In the trenches the evolutionary pressures were reversed: soldiers with a mild strain remained where they were, while the severely ill were sent on crowded trains to crowded field hospitals, spreading the deadlier virus. So the second wave began and flu quickly spread around the world again.[42] It was the same flu, in that most of those who recovered from first-wave infections were immune, but it was now far more deadly and the most vulnerable people were those who were like the soldiers in the trenches - young, otherwise healthy, adults.[43] Consequently, during modern pandemics, health officials pay attention when the virus reaches places with social upheaval, looking for deadlier strains of the virus.[42]
"What do you fear, lady?" Aragorn asked.
"A cage," Éowyn said. "To stay behind bars, until use and old age accept them, and all chance of doing great deeds is gone beyond recall or desire.”
― J.R.R. Tolkien, The Return of the King
"A cage," Éowyn said. "To stay behind bars, until use and old age accept them, and all chance of doing great deeds is gone beyond recall or desire.”
― J.R.R. Tolkien, The Return of the King
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Primula Baggins
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Thanks for that, Anthy. Most scary and informative! And it sounds like college living situations are an excellent incubator for dangerous flu, since kids that age can be such knotheads about asking for help. . . .
“There, peeping among the cloud-wrack above a dark tor high up in the mountains, Sam saw a white star twinkle for a while. The beauty of it smote his heart, as he looked up out of the forsaken land, and hope returned to him. For like a shaft, clear and cold, the thought pierced him that in the end the Shadow was only a small and passing thing: there was light and high beauty for ever beyond its reach.”
― J.R.R. Tolkien, The Return of the King
― J.R.R. Tolkien, The Return of the King
Do you want me to hold 'em down while you jab 'em, or shall we take turns?
"What do you fear, lady?" Aragorn asked.
"A cage," Éowyn said. "To stay behind bars, until use and old age accept them, and all chance of doing great deeds is gone beyond recall or desire.”
― J.R.R. Tolkien, The Return of the King
"A cage," Éowyn said. "To stay behind bars, until use and old age accept them, and all chance of doing great deeds is gone beyond recall or desire.”
― J.R.R. Tolkien, The Return of the King
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Primula Baggins
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Thanks! I'd love to, if I could. But I'm hoping the student health services know what they're up against. 
Both my sons' schools will probably send parents emails notifying us when there is a vaccination program on campus. At least, I'd hope they'd want to enlist as many moms as possible in the pressuring effort.
Both my sons' schools will probably send parents emails notifying us when there is a vaccination program on campus. At least, I'd hope they'd want to enlist as many moms as possible in the pressuring effort.
“There, peeping among the cloud-wrack above a dark tor high up in the mountains, Sam saw a white star twinkle for a while. The beauty of it smote his heart, as he looked up out of the forsaken land, and hope returned to him. For like a shaft, clear and cold, the thought pierced him that in the end the Shadow was only a small and passing thing: there was light and high beauty for ever beyond its reach.”
― J.R.R. Tolkien, The Return of the King
― J.R.R. Tolkien, The Return of the King
Undergrads ought to replace rats on the list of disease vectors they teach us in microbiology. When I was an undergrad, I was coughing from December to March. So were all my friends. So were the undergrads in my former lab (the undergrad in my current lab I never see). We knew better. Really. We were mad at all the other contagious people who came to class and wished they'd just stay home. But, of course, your coursework is the exception because you can't read other people's notes, can't afford to miss a surprise quiz, find the act of taking notes helpful to learning, can't learn out of the textbook, need the TA's help with the problem set, it's the last lecture before the exam, it's a lab and make-ups are misery to schedule and the list goes on. CU has installed Purell dispensers where undergrads are known to congregate. It's both sad and funny at the same time.
Student health, aka student death, is a service students the world over avoid at all costs. If, IF you can get an appointment, the chances of the doctor telling you something you didn't already know are 'round about nil. Students don't want the doctor telling them to drink fluid and rest. They want the doctor to give them some magic pills that'll make it all better overnight with no chance of a secondary infection. Now, I've been told no such pill exists, but I'm not quite far away enough from being a student to really believe that. I still think the doctors at student health are just hoarding meds for the black market. Or won't prescribe them because they think we'll sell them. Or think we can't pay for them (the obvious hole in that argument is universities require students to carry insurance). Or <insert a conspiracy theory here>.
Grad students, while they are just as mistrustful of student health, do tend to be a healthier population. We didn't pack into dorms of go in for a four bedroom house with seven friends and our classes were smaller. But the undergrads man...they'd make you sick. Either someone would cough on you during a lab or recitation or help session or the undergrad lab monkey would bring something in that would go ripping through the lab. And I...I was notorious as a grad student for NOT getting sick, and when I did I didn't get as sick as anyone else. I think it's because I caught so many bugs when I was an undergrad I now have blanket immunity.
Anth, the mortality rate of seasonal flu versus the mortality rate of swine flu is one of the reasons I just refuse to get excited about it. If it turns more deadly than an ordinary flu, then I'll rethink my attitude, but as it is I'm not in a risk group and I'm not going to fret. Especially since the swine flu vaccine requires two (two!!!!!) jabs.
Student health, aka student death, is a service students the world over avoid at all costs. If, IF you can get an appointment, the chances of the doctor telling you something you didn't already know are 'round about nil. Students don't want the doctor telling them to drink fluid and rest. They want the doctor to give them some magic pills that'll make it all better overnight with no chance of a secondary infection. Now, I've been told no such pill exists, but I'm not quite far away enough from being a student to really believe that. I still think the doctors at student health are just hoarding meds for the black market. Or won't prescribe them because they think we'll sell them. Or think we can't pay for them (the obvious hole in that argument is universities require students to carry insurance). Or <insert a conspiracy theory here>.
Grad students, while they are just as mistrustful of student health, do tend to be a healthier population. We didn't pack into dorms of go in for a four bedroom house with seven friends and our classes were smaller. But the undergrads man...they'd make you sick. Either someone would cough on you during a lab or recitation or help session or the undergrad lab monkey would bring something in that would go ripping through the lab. And I...I was notorious as a grad student for NOT getting sick, and when I did I didn't get as sick as anyone else. I think it's because I caught so many bugs when I was an undergrad I now have blanket immunity.
Anth, the mortality rate of seasonal flu versus the mortality rate of swine flu is one of the reasons I just refuse to get excited about it. If it turns more deadly than an ordinary flu, then I'll rethink my attitude, but as it is I'm not in a risk group and I'm not going to fret. Especially since the swine flu vaccine requires two (two!!!!!) jabs.
When you can do nothing what can you do?
Deadly is one thing but it's still a nasty flu bug. A kid in Lufu's class narrowly avoided hospitalization because of dehydration. Balanced against that is the risk of getting sick just from going to the doctor's office for a shot.
If there was anything that depressed him more than his own cynicism, it was that quite often it still wasn't as cynical as real life.
Terry Pratchett, Guards! Guards!
Terry Pratchett, Guards! Guards!
A flu bug is runing through the county (TN) I work in. (I'm a NP).
About 1/2-2/3 the kids have been out of school at some point in the last week. We can only test for influenza A and B. We've gotten a few positives but we also have a stomach bug and the usual seasonal allergy flare-up going on as well.
Most flu patients seem to present with a high fever (101.5-103), body aches and stomach ache. I've written a few Tamiflu scripts but not many. I got the seasonal flu shot cause it was required by my job.
About 1/2-2/3 the kids have been out of school at some point in the last week. We can only test for influenza A and B. We've gotten a few positives but we also have a stomach bug and the usual seasonal allergy flare-up going on as well.
Most flu patients seem to present with a high fever (101.5-103), body aches and stomach ache. I've written a few Tamiflu scripts but not many. I got the seasonal flu shot cause it was required by my job.
Wes ðū hāl
Wow.Andreth wrote:A flu bug is runing through the county (TN) I work in. (I'm a NP).
About 1/2-2/3 the kids have been out of school at some point in the last week.
That's significant.Do you know how they are testing for A and B? Our point-of-care testing for even those broad designations was darn near useless.We can only test for influenza A and B. We've gotten a few positives but we also have a stomach bug and the usual seasonal allergy flare-up going on as well.
Our lecture from CDC indicated that Tamiflu seemed to be useful against H1N1 (not so much seasonal flu) but that H1N1 already seemed to be becoming resistant to it. Those flu viruses change scary fast.Most flu patients seem to present with a high fever (101.5-103), body aches and stomach ache. I've written a few Tamiflu scripts but not many. I got the seasonal flu shot cause it was required by my job.
Frelga wrote:Deadly is one thing but it's still a nasty flu bug.
Absolutely. Having the flu is pretty tough, and this comes from someone who's never had it (at least as an adult... I don't remember much about specific illnesses as a kid).
River wrote:Anth, the mortality rate of seasonal flu versus the mortality rate of swine flu is one of the reasons I just refuse to get excited about it. If it turns more deadly than an ordinary flu, then I'll rethink my attitude, but as it is I'm not in a risk group and I'm not going to fret. Especially since the swine flu vaccine requires two (two!!!!!) jabs.
The mortality rate of seasonal flu shouldn't get you too excited at all... you are NOT in that age group, and I would assume you are pretty healthy overall. The H1N1 should make you fret to a certain extent... you ARE in that age group, and that bug is probably going to be out there big time, this year. You probably wouldn't die from it, of course, unless it goes all 1918 on us and starts killing 1/3 of all it infects. But it would not be all that much fun, anyway you slice it.
I thought I read it was only one jab for H1N1? I'll try to find the link...
Edit: found it. Per the CDC website:
http://www.cdc.gov/h1n1flu/vaccination/ ... qa_pub.htm
The U.S. Food and Drug Administration (FDA) has approved the use of one dose of 2009 H1N1 flu vaccine for persons 10 years of age and older.
"What do you fear, lady?" Aragorn asked.
"A cage," Éowyn said. "To stay behind bars, until use and old age accept them, and all chance of doing great deeds is gone beyond recall or desire.”
― J.R.R. Tolkien, The Return of the King
"A cage," Éowyn said. "To stay behind bars, until use and old age accept them, and all chance of doing great deeds is gone beyond recall or desire.”
― J.R.R. Tolkien, The Return of the King
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Dave_LF
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I have a <1 year old baby in the house, so we'll all be getting vaccinated providing we don't get infected before the vaccinations become available.
I've never had the flu in my life (or if I have, it was mild enough I just thought it was a cold), but as I understand it, a robust immune system makes you more vulnerable to H1N1.
Most of the US is currently at 5/5 on the flu scale (widespread). Vermont alone is still at 2 (sporadic), and no one is lower.
http://www.wunderground.com/US/Region/US/2xFlu.html
http://www.cdc.gov/flu/weekly/
I've never had the flu in my life (or if I have, it was mild enough I just thought it was a cold), but as I understand it, a robust immune system makes you more vulnerable to H1N1.
Most of the US is currently at 5/5 on the flu scale (widespread). Vermont alone is still at 2 (sporadic), and no one is lower.
http://www.wunderground.com/US/Region/US/2xFlu.html
http://www.cdc.gov/flu/weekly/
Andreth, I think that's a great choice, with the testing. The nasal swabs are being sent somewhere that does PCR, probably, and that is SO much more accurate than the point-of-care testing.
The rapid tests were pretty good when they called the specimen positive for flu A (not so much for flu B, but the novel H1N1 is a type of A); they are about 90% specific, I think. That means that 90% of the time the test calls it an "A", it is an A.
When the test came up negative, that meant NOTHING. That point of care rapid test was anywhere from 10 to 70% accurate when calling a sample negative for flu A or B.
10 to 70%.
70% alone would be a pretty awful test, but 10% accuracy? Truly, a coin toss would wildly increase your odds of calling a true negative "negative".
http://www.cdc.gov/h1n1flu/guidance/rapid_testing.htm
Anyway, all this has hit home because my severely asthmatic daughter is pretty darned sick... she might have the flu.
The rapid tests were pretty good when they called the specimen positive for flu A (not so much for flu B, but the novel H1N1 is a type of A); they are about 90% specific, I think. That means that 90% of the time the test calls it an "A", it is an A.
When the test came up negative, that meant NOTHING. That point of care rapid test was anywhere from 10 to 70% accurate when calling a sample negative for flu A or B.
10 to 70%.
70% alone would be a pretty awful test, but 10% accuracy? Truly, a coin toss would wildly increase your odds of calling a true negative "negative".
http://www.cdc.gov/h1n1flu/guidance/rapid_testing.htm
Anyway, all this has hit home because my severely asthmatic daughter is pretty darned sick... she might have the flu.
"What do you fear, lady?" Aragorn asked.
"A cage," Éowyn said. "To stay behind bars, until use and old age accept them, and all chance of doing great deeds is gone beyond recall or desire.”
― J.R.R. Tolkien, The Return of the King
"A cage," Éowyn said. "To stay behind bars, until use and old age accept them, and all chance of doing great deeds is gone beyond recall or desire.”
― J.R.R. Tolkien, The Return of the King