The 2008 Presidential Campaign (was Obama Phenomenon 2)

[Holbytla]

I think Bill is a bit too savvy for that. He knows Hillary still has a potential future and isn't likely to throw that away by being spiteful. Whatever snide remarks he has have already been said or will come at a different time and place.

At a forum on Sunday, when Pennsylvania Gov. Ed Rendell called MSNBC "the official network of the Obama campaign," Brokaw said, "I think Keith has gone too far. I think Chris has gone too far."

All too true and their overt love for Obama has had a reverse effect on a number of people. We'll see how fast they turn and bite if Obama is elected and does something they don't like. Well at least the media bias in this country is no longer underground.

[Primula Baggins]

The liberal part of it, anyway.

[solicitr]

OTOH, Holby, Bill also knows that Hillary's future career depends on Obama losing, giving her a shot in 2012.

And I think Bill is fightin' mad not just because he still seethes over the race card, but because Slick Willie has been beaten at his own game by an even slicker operator. His ego can't handle it.

----

Prim, you mentioned the Supreme Court. Now, Bill and Hill are both Yale-educated lawyers, many of her supporters are lawyers, and it seems to me that many of our tribe are positively scared to death by what Obama's campaign says about judicial appointments:

"Barack Obama has always believed that our courts should stand up for social and economic justice, and what's truly elitist is to appoint judges who will protect the powerful and leave ordinary Americans to fend for themselves."

Let that sink in for a moment. At least for anyone who's been to law school, that's an astounding, jaw-dropping statement- and for anyone except a hard-core leftist, simply terrifying. Obama has declared that he will knowingly appoint biased judges: judges who will decide a case not on the law, but on who the parties are.

This is a fundamental assult on the integrity of the Federal judiciary, and it frankly gives me the heebie-jeebies.


(Incidentally, there are still only 2 anti-Roe votes on the Court- neither of them being Roberts and Alito, whom McCain says his appointments would resemble).

[Voronwë the Faithful]

This is getting off track just a bit, but soli do you really believe that, given the chance, Roberts and Alito would not vote to overturn Roe? I don't believe that for a second.

And as "part of the tribe," I have no problem at all with that statement of Obama's (who, of course, is also "part of the tribe"). I don't read that statement in the same way that you do at all.

[Holbytla]

Yes but Bill realizes the time to derail Obama is not now. That would come off as sour grapes and serve no purpose but to sink her potential 2012 ship.

Obama has declared that he will knowingly appoint biased judges: judges who will decide a case not on the law, but on who the parties are.

How is this different from any other appointers? Certainly political ideals is a huge factor in appointing a judge. Maybe other presidents have been less blatant, but they were doing the same thing.

[sauronsfinger]

I must sit back in puzzlement and amazement at the people here who think the Democratic convention is disorganized and at each others throat. Unless that perspective is just more political spin and they know it.

I was an elected delegate to a Democratic National Convention - 1972 in Miami Florida for George McGovern. I had just turned 23 at the time. I spent five nights there and it was the most unprogrammed, free form, not on schedule convention you could ever imagine. Despite being on all three networks, there was no pressure to keep to schedule - instead the democratic process on the floor was allowed to work as it should. As a result, I remember being bussed back to the Playboy Hotel where the Michigan delegation was housed on at least two nights at nearly 4 AM. And then you had meetings the next morning at 8 or 9.

If people watch the lockstep rigidty and conformity of a standard Republican convention and expect the same thing from the Democrats, they simply have no realistic idea of what to expect. When you bite into a hamburger you know darn well its a lot different than a hot dog.

The Republicans have been known for their clocklike precision and almost eerie conformity. The Dems tend to be the opposite. To judge this to mean the party is falling apart or is not united is just plain a serious error in judgment.

Dems like to go through the process and raise some hell along the way. Thats how we do things. Many of us have trouble with authority and like a wee bit of anarchy sprinkled into the mix. So please do not jump to the conclusion that every little dispute and disagreement spells a party unraveling. Its not happening.

The one thing that matters is after Obama is officially nominated and the immediate reaction on the floor from former Clinton supporters. Especially the women who basically supported Hillary more from a sense of identity politics. If they celebrate with the others and make no fuss for the cameras (who really want them to cry and gnash their teeth) then everyone goes home happy. At least the Democrats go home happy.

[Ellienor]

Let that sink in for a moment. At least for anyone who's been to law school, that's an astounding, jaw-dropping statement- and for anyone except a hard-core leftist, simply terrifying. Obama has declared that he will knowingly appoint biased judges: judges who will decide a case not on the law, but on who the parties are.

Um, overgeneralization there, Soli. I too have been to law school and I don't read that statement the same way you do.

I admit that I don't subscribe to the "originalist" viewpoint of the Constitution. If we enshrined all the social attitudes of the 18th century embodied in it, we'd still have slavery and no women voting, for example.

[superwizard]

The only real question is how long the roll-call will be allowed to continue before Clinton herself (in all liklihood) stops it and calls for Obama to be nominated by acclimation. This is no different than what has been discussed for past few days.

Nothing is going to satisfy some of the Clinton supporters. For whatever reason, this has become personal to them, and it no longer is about the issues, or even who will better represent their interests, McCain or Obama.

Well V was perfectly right. Clinton (just) called the call off. From what I can see so far she really has done a good job supporting Obama.

[solicitr]

Ellie, abolition and women's suffrage were added to the Constitution by the amendment process- not by judicial fiat.

---

SF, are you sure you want to hold up the '72 campaign as an example for Democrats to emulate?

[Padme]

Well V was perfectly right. Clinton (just) called the call off. From what I can see so far she really has done a good job supporting Obama.

That was something to watch.

[Primula Baggins]

I noted that she included as part of her motion that all votes be counted, meaning that delegates who voted for her will be recorded as having done so.

That must have been the point of having everyone vote this morning. Otherwise Clinton voters later in the roll call would not have been counted.

[Holbytla]

There were a few boos at one point -- when Massachusetts cast its vote and gave a nod to its sports teams, the Red Sox and the Celtics, the current baseball and basketball champions.

Yes!!
A true sign of being on top. Our sports teams are hated nationwide and we are obnoxious enough to entreat upon the convention.
Praise be, we have finally reached the glory land.

[Cerin]

I must sit back in puzzlement and amazement at the people here who think the Democratic convention is disorganized and at each others throat.

On the contary, I think it's hyper-organized and controlled. The report of the voting procedure was rather confused, and it seems the delegates were rather confused about what was going on, but obviously someone is running the thing with an iron hand. No spontaneity allowed (same for the Republican convention, no doubt).

[Voronwë the Faithful]

Carefully scripted by the Obama AND Clinton groups. I am somewhat in awe that they were able to come up with a formula that allowed the Clinton delegates to vote for her, and be counted as having done so, and yet also allowed her to call for Obama's nomination by aclimation. No, this is not going to satisfy her most bitter supporters, but I think it was absolutely the best possible solution. Now the questions are whether Bill is fully on board, how good a job Biden does attacking McCain, and most of all how well Obama sells his message that he is the best steward of the economy for the majority of Americans.

[sauronsfinger]

from Solicitr

SF, are you sure you want to hold up the '72 campaign as an example for Democrats to emulate?

I do NOT recall doing that. I was merely attempting to give a little bit of historical context into how Democratic conventions are run and what happens at them. In the old days we used to have bloody credentials fights on Monday night, followed by an even more bloody platform fight on Tuesday night. Nobody ever looked at a watch to see if everything was on some dictators schedule. i was just trying to tell everyone here that what you think passes for confusion and dispute is not at all that way.

My post was specifically aimed at the people here who seemed to be licking their proverbial chops at a Democratic brawl tonight. It did NOT happen did it? Not even one fist fight or crying feminist not accepting the reality of mathematics. Perfect unity that would have been at home at one of the highly controlled perfectly scripted Republican conventions that run better on time than Mussolini's fabled trains did.

And we still have President Clinton to speak. If he is smart - and he normally is if it does not involve women - he will be the perfect speaker for the right moment. He will embrace Obama as if he supported him for the past two years. Hillary has the most to gain from it.

[Voronwë the Faithful]

I must confess, I got chills hearing Obama officially nominated. I support Obama not because he is the first viable African-American candidate, but rather because he genuinely think he is the best person for the job. His views on the issues, his approach to governing, and particularly his temperment are very closely aligned with my own. That is why I support him. But now that the reality has actually occurred, and a major U.S. political party has nominated an African-American for the office of President, I find myself bowled over by the moment. Regardless of what happens from here, this is a historic time.

[Inanna]

Bill Clinton just gave his speech - supporting Obama all the way. From a comparison to McCain, as well as emphasizing again and again how Obama is "ready to be the President". The latter was a little, I don't know, 'pat-on-the-head-to-a-kid', but I guess needed for people.

I have pretty much tuned out the election since the primaries... so it was a nice surprise for me to see how the crowd went wild at specific points when Bill mentioned Obama. They even chanted "Yes, we can" at one point of time. His reception tomorrow should be something to see.

[solicitr]

Damn.

[Primula Baggins]

But, surely, no surprise.

[solicitr]

I must confess, I got chills hearing Obama officially nominated. I support Obama not because he is the first viable African-American candidate, but rather because he genuinely think he is the best person for the job. His views on the issues, his approach to governing, and particularly his temperment are very closely aligned with my own. That is why I support him.

Then, Vor, you might find this sociopolitical analysis interesting.