The Obama Phenomenon and the 2008 Presidential Campaign

Discussions of and about the historic 2008 U.S. Presidential Election
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halplm
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Post by halplm »

Perhaps this belongs in a VP thread... but it occurs to me that if he weren't running himself... McCain would be about the best VP candidate that Obama could find :)

They agree on all but the War (McCain's recent move to the right is not believable in any way), and he would bring the experience Obama needs on his ticket.

At this point, the election seems far more interesting to me than it used to... there is a significant chance, that both the Democrats and Republicans will tear their parties apart during this election...

Don't know who that means will win (probably Obama), but it will be very interesting to see the fallout for both parties...
For the TROUBLED may you find PEACE
For the DESPAIRING may you find HOPE
For the LONELY may you find LOVE
For the SKEPTICAL may you find FAITH
-Frances C. Arrillaga 1941-1995
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tinwë
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Post by tinwë »

No doubt the timing of this was planned for maximum effect. Clinton spent the day taping interviews with all of the major news networks, presumably to trumpet her astonishing victory in WV yesterday. I say presumably because I never saw any of them, they were all preempted by the Edwards endorsement. Talk about stealing someone else’s thunder. Not that I mind - I think Clinton is stealing what should be Obama’s thunder by staying in the race, so, turnabout’s fair play.

I’m not so sure about how long Edwards has made up his mind though. As Prim pointed out, his wife is presumably a Clinton supporter because of her health care plan, and it stands to reason that Edwards may not have truly decided until recently because of that. Who knows. I did think he gave a great speech, and I thought it was completely sincere, even if he is gunning for a position in the administration somewhere. Why wouldn’t he be? He’s a politician who’s been out of office for four years now. The guy needs a job. That doesn’t mean he wasn’t sincere in the things he said, most of which came straight out of his stump speech - the two America’s business for instance.

I don’t know if he’s being considered for VP or not, but I hope not. There’s just something unseemly about running for VP twice in a row. Maybe a cabinet position. Attorney General perhaps? :)
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Túrin Turambar
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Post by Túrin Turambar »

I think that Edwards’ late endorsement is a reflection on why he wasn’t a particularly strong candidate to start off with – like Romney (and John Kerry in 2004) he comes across as a bit of a weathervane. I like him, but he never really had the gravitas or decisive character to run strongly in this (very competitive) race.
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Primula Baggins
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Post by Primula Baggins »

Well, McCain and Obama disagree on a few things beyond the war—the economy, choice, the Bush tax cuts, health care, education, veterans' benefits, net neutrality, government regulatory authority, Social Security. . . . a few little things. ;)

I don't see either party tearing itself apart. I think they will both come together. But I don't think it's the Republicans' year. McCain's in a really unenviable spot: he can't win without bringing in independents and conservative Democrats; but he also can't win without the Republican base, the twenty-seven percenters. And anything that he does to please one alienates the other, whereas steering a middle path alienates both.

That's not to say he can't still win. He's just got a lot to work against.
“There, peeping among the cloud-wrack above a dark tor high up in the mountains, Sam saw a white star twinkle for a while. The beauty of it smote his heart, as he looked up out of the forsaken land, and hope returned to him. For like a shaft, clear and cold, the thought pierced him that in the end the Shadow was only a small and passing thing: there was light and high beauty for ever beyond its reach.”
― J.R.R. Tolkien, The Return of the King
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Post by Frelga »

Voronwë_the_Faithful wrote:Frelga, I'll look forward to seeing what post you actually meant, if you can find it.
It was either in the Social Security or housing crisis thread or whichever parent thread it was spun off from, where the discussion touched on personal responsibility and the obligation of people to be responsible for their own savings and investments. The Search function is really less than helpful here (I think it only looks at the first X characters) and I'm out of time. Since the discussion moved on, if I find the post, I'll PM it to soli and you. If I don't find it, I'll apologize in the thread and check myself into some nice place with padded cells, because it's just bizarre that I can't find something I remember so vividly.
His philosophy was a mixture of three famous schools -- the Cynics, the Stoics and the Epicureans -- and summed up all three of them in his famous phrase, 'You can't trust any bugger further than you can throw him, and there's nothing you can do about it, so let's have a drink."

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Post by solicitr »

So Saruman endorses Sauron and it's 'good news'.......
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Post by Alatar »

:rotfl: :rotfl: :rotfl:

Why not just call them Nazi's while you're at it. Couldn't hurt your credibility any worse..
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Post by solicitr »

No, not Nazis, but certainly Chamberlains.

You know, outside the cozy leftist consensus which seems to obtain around here, there are perfectly rational and, dare I say it, credible individuals who are unconvinced that this wholesale rush to embrace again the liberal verities is an unadulterated good.

But then again, how much credibility could I possibly have, being no more than a heartless synthesis of Scrooge, Mr Potter and Donald Trump? Where are the stocks and the whipping-posts? Are there no workhouses, no prisons?

As acknowledged even by your faction on the healthcare thread, there is no free lunch: yet Obamamania seems to believe that all his lavish promises won't have to be paid for- or at least that the entire Big Rock Candy Mountain can be funded merely by taxing the Evil Rich, not 'real' people.
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Primula Baggins
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Post by Primula Baggins »

Soli, of course there are plenty of people who disagree with the Democratic proposals and the philosophy behind them. Do you seriously think that after the last eight years this is news to anyone? :D

As for paying for it all, as grownups we know from our own experience (working, paying bills for things—really, we've all done that, even the liberals!) that we won't be getting Free Candy. What many of us are excited about is the chance to reverse our present course and make some different choices. Things probably won't get better right away, but we'll be moving in the right direction.
“There, peeping among the cloud-wrack above a dark tor high up in the mountains, Sam saw a white star twinkle for a while. The beauty of it smote his heart, as he looked up out of the forsaken land, and hope returned to him. For like a shaft, clear and cold, the thought pierced him that in the end the Shadow was only a small and passing thing: there was light and high beauty for ever beyond its reach.”
― J.R.R. Tolkien, The Return of the King
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Post by solicitr »

I'd be interested to hear your take on the 'right direction,' Miss Prim.

I'd also be rather happier if the phrase 'balanced budget' just once passed Obama's lips.
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Post by yovargas »

Balanced budget? Whatsss that, preciousss?
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I wanna throw my body in the river and drown
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Post by solicitr »

Dussst and asshes! We can't eat that! It tries to choke poor Sméagol, it does!
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Post by Cerin »

So Obama dismissed a female reporter with, 'Hold on a second, sweetie.' (link has a video)

Women on the phone (receptionists, etc.) are always calling me 'hon' and 'dear', which makes me wonder what's lacking in my demeanor. It does irritate me a bit, but the irritation is with myself for doing whatever it is that welcomes what seems like an overly familiar tone. I'm not sure how I'd take to being addressed as 'sweetie' by an unknown man in a passing situation.

I wonder what Obama would have said had it been a male reporter?


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Primula Baggins
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Post by Primula Baggins »

The right direction? Disengagement from Iraq, as much as possible. Changing focus to Afghanistan for a serious effort to shut down Al Qaeda. New domestic priorities (a health care plan, beginning to rebuild our infrastructure). Rooting out the cronies and idiots that are stuffing so many appointed government positions now. Returning to a science policy that's based on science. Getting back to regulation where lack of regulation affects Americans' safety and health. An actual attempt at fiscal responsibility. Rolling back privatization. Firing Halliburton.

That kind of thing. No doubt all Communist-inspired. :P
“There, peeping among the cloud-wrack above a dark tor high up in the mountains, Sam saw a white star twinkle for a while. The beauty of it smote his heart, as he looked up out of the forsaken land, and hope returned to him. For like a shaft, clear and cold, the thought pierced him that in the end the Shadow was only a small and passing thing: there was light and high beauty for ever beyond its reach.”
― J.R.R. Tolkien, The Return of the King
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Voronwë the Faithful
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Post by Voronwë the Faithful »

Cerin, I think that was the most disappointing thing that I have seen from Obama. Worse than the "bitter" comments. I'm not sure what to make of it. I'm not sure that it is an indication of sexism so much as a type of unattractive arrogance. He apparently called the reporter later and apologized, but that certainly doesn't excuse it. It's not going to make me stop supporting him, but it is disappointing.
"Among the tales of sorrow there are yet some in which amid weeping there is joy and under the shadow of death light that endures."
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Post by axordil »

If someone had been badgering me with a question I just answered in a town hall meeting an hour earlier, in what was obviously not a Q and A session, I would have called them something less kind that "sweetie", male or female.
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Post by vison »

Primula Baggins wrote:The right direction? Disengagement from Iraq, as much as possible. Changing focus to Afghanistan for a serious effort to shut down Al Qaeda. New domestic priorities (a health care plan, beginning to rebuild our infrastructure). Rooting out the cronies and idiots that are stuffing so many appointed government positions now. Returning to a science policy that's based on science. Getting back to regulation where lack of regulation affects Americans' safety and health. An actual attempt at fiscal responsibility. Rolling back privatization. Firing Halliburton.

That kind of thing. No doubt all Communist-inspired. :P
Yes, each and every thing on your list lifted right out of the Communist Manifesto. And you call yourself an American!!! You ought to hide your head in shame, Primula. :nono:
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JewelSong
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Post by JewelSong »

Obama can call me "sweetie" anytime.

:D
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halplm
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Post by halplm »

fiscal responsibility????

This is Obama we're talking about, right?
Disengagement from Iraq, as much as possible.
Bolding mine, of course. I would seriously be impressed if you could find a source for me that shows how Obama throws in that little gem. To make up a blind stat out of thin air, I would guess that 97% of Obama supporters expect him to pick up the phone the moment he's sworn in, and start bringing troops home.

You, and I, and most people know that is not practical, or wise... but Obama has said from day one that one of his top prioirties is to "end the war" immediately... He has said nothing so conservative as "as much as possible."

Of course, Bush would argue that we are disengaging from Iraq, as much as possible... right now.
For the TROUBLED may you find PEACE
For the DESPAIRING may you find HOPE
For the LONELY may you find LOVE
For the SKEPTICAL may you find FAITH
-Frances C. Arrillaga 1941-1995
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Post by River »

Voronwë_the_Faithful wrote:Cerin, I think that was the most disappointing thing that I have seen from Obama. Worse than the "bitter" comments. I'm not sure what to make of it. I'm not sure that it is an indication of sexism so much as a type of unattractive arrogance. He apparently called the reporter later and apologized, but that certainly doesn't excuse it. It's not going to make me stop supporting him, but it is disappointing.
Well, at least he acknowledged the error. That's better than most.
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