Cultural Appropriation

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Frelga
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Re: Cultural Appropriation

Post by Frelga »

On a slight tangent but the haka is terrifying even when performed at a hotel luau by guys who are probably not Maori.
His philosophy was a mixture of three famous schools -- the Cynics, the Stoics and the Epicureans -- and summed up all three of them in his famous phrase, 'You can't trust any bugger further than you can throw him, and there's nothing you can do about it, so let's have a drink."

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River
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Re: Cultural Appropriation

Post by River »

Inanna, I got your larger point and giggled. What the Nazis did with the swastika is probably one of the more obvious and egregious examples of cultural appropriation but that's nothing compared to straight-up genocide. And there probably are more important things to talk about...but for whatever reason conversations have been happening about this for a good two or three years now (we're rather late to the party on HoF). And the term "cultural appropriation" definitely seems to lack a fixed definition. Or, at least, a fixed definition someone who's spent almost no time studying the matter can latch onto.
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Primula Baggins
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Re: Cultural Appropriation

Post by Primula Baggins »

Nobody wants to appropriate my culture. Lutefisk in white sauce . . . potato sausage . . . Luther's chorales . . . the fish-slapping dance. . . .

It kind of stings, TBH. :cry:
“There, peeping among the cloud-wrack above a dark tor high up in the mountains, Sam saw a white star twinkle for a while. The beauty of it smote his heart, as he looked up out of the forsaken land, and hope returned to him. For like a shaft, clear and cold, the thought pierced him that in the end the Shadow was only a small and passing thing: there was light and high beauty for ever beyond its reach.”
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Re: Cultural Appropriation

Post by Sunsilver »

LOL! When I was growing up, we were pretty typically British in what we ate: roast beef cooked until the bone started to burn, and lots of carrots, potatoes, turnips and cabbage. Friday was usually fish, even though we were Anglican and not Catholic (baked sole). Oh, and of course, tea with every meal, except breakfast, when my parents would have a cup of coffee perked in one of those old-fashioned Pyrex percolators.

Desserts were usually applesauce (wintertime) or in-season fruit. Occasionally, Mom would get rid of our stale bread by making a bread pudding. It's actually a poverty dish, but YUM! It was sure a treat!

Can't see many people wanting to emulate our culture, either. :P Of course, a lot of it was due to the time period. Fresh vegetables were quite expensive during the winter time, and therefore winter vegetables like the ones I've listed above were the norm. The fridge we had when i was a kid had a little tiny icebox that wouldn't keep much of anything frozen - if we bought a brick of ice cream, we had to eat it almost immediately, before it melted.

What a wonderful thing it was to get a fridge that had an actual freezer, and then we could eat frozen veggies in the wintertime, instead of relying on canned or the boring old winter veggies.
When the night has been too lonely, and the road has been too long,
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Frelga
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Re: Cultural Appropriation

Post by Frelga »

Well, Russians appropriated borscht from Ukrainians.
His philosophy was a mixture of three famous schools -- the Cynics, the Stoics and the Epicureans -- and summed up all three of them in his famous phrase, 'You can't trust any bugger further than you can throw him, and there's nothing you can do about it, so let's have a drink."

Terry Pratchett, Small Gods
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River
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Re: Cultural Appropriation

Post by River »

My heritage is Midwestern mongrel. If overcooked veggies get popular I'll wonder WTF is wrong with people. My parents fled that.
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Dave_LF
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Re: Cultural Appropriation

Post by Dave_LF »

Primula Baggins wrote:Nobody wants to appropriate my culture. Lutefisk in white sauce . . . potato sausage . . . Luther's chorales . . . the fish-slapping dance. . . .

It kind of stings, TBH. :cry:
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Maria
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Re: Cultural Appropriation

Post by Maria »

I don't think I have a clear heritage. I spent the second half of my childhood in the Ozark Mountains, but I loathed the redneck culture and made sure I escaped the place.

My husband has a clear Cajun heritage which I help out with by learning to make several yummy dishes from my mother in law. It also shows in his genetic markers.

My heritage is American, I guess. Both sides of my family have been here since the 1600s.
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Maria
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Re: Cultural Appropriation

Post by Maria »

Does this count?
22853001_1921288027888548_7358052189598255728_n.jpg
22853001_1921288027888548_7358052189598255728_n.jpg (99.81 KiB) Viewed 8308 times
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Inanna
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Re: Cultural Appropriation

Post by Inanna »

By definition, it should, right?
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Re: Cultural Appropriation

Post by Impenitent »

There are no hard and fast rules. If you're dressing up as Castro, maybe it's cultural appropriation; if you're dressing up as Navy SEAL (esp a white navy SEAL), probably not.
Cultural appropriation includes a dash of racism and oppression.

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Re: Cultural Appropriation

Post by Sunsilver »

Here's a very interesting post on this subject. A Japanese mom steps in and burns the people who are calling the little girl's tea party 'cultural appropriation':

https://www.boredpanda.com/japanese-tea ... 9f881108d6



The last blog post pretty much sums it up: "Earnest imitation isn't appropriation. Reducing a culture to a marketable stereotype is."
When the night has been too lonely, and the road has been too long,
And you think that love is only for the lucky and the strong,
Just remember in the winter far beneath the bitter snows,
Lies the seed, that with the sun's love, in the spring becomes The Rose.
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Re: Cultural Appropriation

Post by RoseMorninStar »

Sunsilver wrote:Here's a very interesting post on this subject. A Japanese mom steps in and burns the people who are calling the little girl's tea party 'cultural appropriation':

https://www.boredpanda.com/japanese-tea ... 9f881108d6



The last blog post pretty much sums it up: "Earnest imitation isn't appropriation. Reducing a culture to a marketable stereotype is."
I appreciated this post. We have had 4 Japanese students stay with us and my daughter spent a summer teaching in Japan. The entire family has received Yukatas as gifts and we were not sure whether we could/should wear them or if it would be perceived as inappropriate.
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Voronwë the Faithful
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Re: Cultural Appropriation

Post by Voronwë the Faithful »

I'm an expert on cultural appropriation, or the appearance thereof. My advice is to wearing them if you like them, with respect and love. And the heck with what anyone else thinks.
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Re: Cultural Appropriation

Post by RoseMorninStar »

V. Thanks! That was my view of things, but then one gets input from others and doubt creeps in...
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Frelga
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Re: Cultural Appropriation

Post by Frelga »

But then there are these assholes.

St. Peters Gun Store Compares Gun Owners To Jews In Nazi Germany
ST. PETERS, MO — A local gun store is causing an uproar by comparing Republicans and gun owners to Jews living in Nazi Germany. Tactical S--t, located in St. Peters, is selling a "pieces of flair morale patch" modeled on the yellow Stars of David Jewish citizens were forced to wear in Nazi Germany and Nazi-occupied Europe. One patch says "Gun Owner" and another reads "Republican."
I doubt they are doing it with love, but even if they think they are, I don't care. They don't get to do this.

This is from January, for the record.
His philosophy was a mixture of three famous schools -- the Cynics, the Stoics and the Epicureans -- and summed up all three of them in his famous phrase, 'You can't trust any bugger further than you can throw him, and there's nothing you can do about it, so let's have a drink."

Terry Pratchett, Small Gods
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RoseMorninStar
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Re: Cultural Appropriation

Post by RoseMorninStar »

It took me a minute to wrap my head around what his intentions were and when it dawned on me I was sickened. That is not appropriate and not good at all. Outrageous provocation is right.
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Primula Baggins
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Re: Cultural Appropriation

Post by Primula Baggins »

Voronwë, I think about you when "cultural appropriation" is mentioned—not because I think you're doing it. Not at all. But I wonder if it ever comes up. I'm involved in some discussions on Twitter and elsewhere about culture in general; right now science fiction and fantasy are undergoing (and rightfully so) kind of a convulsion on this point—is it enough to put brown people into works written by white people who are not intimately familiar with the cultures in question? Should white writers even try, or is that appropriation of culture and erasure of writers of color? I think you are respectfully studying and celebrating the culture, and amplifying it within U.S. culture.

I confess that what I have done, in four novels thus far, is write stories set far enough in the future that existing cultures have changed significantly from what they are now. The main character of my current book was born in Kolkata—but a different Kolkata, in a different nation (not a nation anymore), in a world that is trying to impose homogeneity on everyone. Thus I facilely mask my ignorance.

But on the other hand, as a matter of conscience, should I only write SF about white Americans, mostly men (done to death for decades and decades, and boring) or about Norwegians (not thrilling, unless I undertake the historical Viking romance series my mom and I were always going to write, Olav Thunderthighs)?*

*Our main plan was to take lots of tax-dedictible cruises throughout northern Europe and the Mediterranean.
“There, peeping among the cloud-wrack above a dark tor high up in the mountains, Sam saw a white star twinkle for a while. The beauty of it smote his heart, as he looked up out of the forsaken land, and hope returned to him. For like a shaft, clear and cold, the thought pierced him that in the end the Shadow was only a small and passing thing: there was light and high beauty for ever beyond its reach.”
― J.R.R. Tolkien, The Return of the King
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Maria
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Re: Cultural Appropriation

Post by Maria »

It would be kind of funny if you actually wrote the first Olav Thunderthighs novel as a joke and it became a best seller.

My son and daughter-in-law are moving to St. Peters, Mo this month. Ohhhhhhh, Missouri. :nono:
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Re: Cultural Appropriation

Post by Sunsilver »

*Our main plan was to take lots of tax-dedictible cruises throughout northern Europe and the Mediterranean.
:rotfl: :rotfl: [wipes coffee off screen...]

Good luck with that! :D
When the night has been too lonely, and the road has been too long,
And you think that love is only for the lucky and the strong,
Just remember in the winter far beneath the bitter snows,
Lies the seed, that with the sun's love, in the spring becomes The Rose.
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