Organic food and fair trade

[narya]

My Latina niece who is a third generation American is certainly not thrilled with the new Arizona law on stopping people and asking for their papers. And for the record, when I visited the USSR in 1980 I was asked for my "bumagi" repeatedly. I dressed like an American, and was wandering about without my official guide, so it was not unexpected.

I agree that the solution is to crack down on the industries that say they "must" use illegal aliens. Since when is the economics of a venture cause for breaking the law?

I just finished listening to a good podcast on fair trade. This may be a partial solution. One example given was that the average $10 to $14 bag of gormet coffee beans included 10 cents for the farmer. These farmers were living in abject poverty. Then the farmers formed a coop, charged $1 per bag, and found that the slightly higher price was well tolerated by everyone in America, from Walmart shoppers to Starbucks sippers. Meanwhile, the farmers have been able to purchase mules to carry the 100 pound sacks of coffee beans down the mountain, put in a water supply for the village, and send one of their kids to college for the first time. A little distribution of wealth goes a long way, and this method stays within the free market economy. In Europe, fair trade actually has a large percentage of the market.

Here's the podcast:
http://aworldofpossibilities.org/progra ... ed-or-fair

Edited so the first sentence would make more sense - this was branched off of another thread.

[River]

Organic, fair trade coffee often goes for a higher price in the US, but I think that has more to do with the fact that people are willing and expecting to pay more than the coffee actually costing that much more (the mark up is typically more than $1). In fact, I'm almost certain that the marked-up price is at least partial baloney because, at the Sunflower in Boulder, they sell bulk coffee for $6 or $7/lb. All varieties are the same price, including the beans that are organic and fair trade.

[narya]

Both fair trade and organic prices have been coming down. Organic prices were high partly because demand exceeded supply, so they could charge more. Fair trade can be competitively priced if at least one middle man is cut out by the coop.

But my point here is that it IS possible to give people a living wage and still have an economically viable enterprise. Saying that "oh, if we don't use illegal immigrants, you will all starve because food will be too expensive" is the real baloney here.

[Primula Baggins]

Well, in a way, paying more for fair-trade coffee is encouraging more coffee merchants to seek it out, which is helping the practice to spread.

It's like buying organic even when it doesn't matter all that much to the consumer (bananas and melons, for example). If you choose to do this, you're paying extra so the people growing, harvesting, and handling the produce aren't exposed to that stuff, and you're supporting farmers who choose to go to the trouble (and it is trouble) to grow things organically.

Of course, all this presupposes a large number of people who are both willing to pay more for their principles and can afford to do it. Unprosperous times can be hard on the ideals.

[Frelga]

On a tangent, but organic melons matter very much. They accumulate whatever is in the soil. DDT had been found in melons in the 90s, when it had been banned for 20 years (although organic won't protect against old contamination like that).

And if disposable income goes down, it makes better sense to cut down on paying for processed and prepared foods and cook from scratch with wholesome ingredients. Especially if the fall in income is accompanied by extra free time.

[Primula Baggins]

Yes, but I already cook from scratch, so when my disposable income goes down, I have to cut back on the kinds of fresh foods I buy. We also almost never eat out, and we don't buy fast food. So something's gotta give!

Thanks, BTW, for the tip about melons. I had read that they weren't a problem.

I do feel strongly about this, because people working in Big Agriculture fields get exposed to nightmarish levels of toxic chemicals. One reason, probably, why those are the jobs that illegal immigrants fill.

[Holbytla]

*sigh*

This whole thing makes me crazy on a number of levels, but I really can't expand on that without derailing this topic into something off tangent.

I've spent 26 years in the food retail industry and the trends I have seen over those years are repugnant in so many ways and reach into areas like agriculture, commerce, labor, trucking, corporate structures, foreign ownership, bottom lines and a few others I am sure.

At the bottom of all of those things and of the topic of discussion is the almighty dollar. And that is what will eventually rip apart the foundations of this country.

[Frelga]

Prim, I didn't mean you. I was talking about an "average" consumer.

[Primula Baggins]

No, I know what you meant. No problem!

Holby, if you feel up to it, you could always start a thread on this topic. I think there'd be interest. Or anyone could.

[Frelga]

Holby, if you feel up to it, you could always start a thread on this topic. I think there'd be interest. Or anyone could.

[vison]

Cheap food is the bane of the world. I'm not kidding. Because it's NOT cheap. Americans buy the most heavily subsidized food on the planet. You guys get cheap food because it's "supported" at every level. One "support" is cheap labour.

Organic food costs more, mostly, because it does not get all the subsidies and price supports and fuel cost breaks and all the rest. The cost of organic food is closer to what it actually costs to grow it.

I dispute utterly the contention that buying everyday food from China, India, or Africa is "good" for anyone. It's not. North Americans have become accustomed to the most insane sorts of food supplies: I have even seen cooking magazines telling people to make strawberry jam out of strawberries imported from Chile, in December. This is so crazy it makes my head spin.

When you spend only 8 or 9% of your income on food, how can you complain about "high prices"?

[BrianIsSmilingAtYou]

The town that I live in, Media PA, just outside Philadelphia was the first fair trade town in America, in fact, in the Western Hemisphere. They had heard about it in Europe and thought it would be a good thing to bring here.

The following videos are about some of the things that went into this decision and what it means.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6FZrlpN9mUo

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zXF_Q_Ni ... re=related is only tangentially related to the fair trade issue, but it does mention it.

I know a fair number of people in these videos.

BrianIs AtYou

[narya]

Brian, those are great videos. I suppose you should be the one hosting this thread, because you've been immersed in fair trade for so long. I'm just finding out about it now, and heard that podcast this morning, and commented on the underlying problem I see with the current illegal immigration problems, and poof, someone splits off my comment to start a new thread.

I'd like to hear what others have to say about fair trade, organic foods, locovores (eating locally grown only), and fast food. I get a box of organic, locally grown vegis and fruits delivered to my house every other week, and shop sporadically at the farmers market, but I must admit I get bananas from the supermarket as well.

I try to minimize the processed foods, because I have difficulty dealing with all the sodium in them. But it isn't cheap. Calories from fresh foods cost far more than the processed starchy foods.

[BrianIsSmilingAtYou]

Well, the fair trade approach has been a good idea for a number of reasons. Certainly, the town has benefited from the publicity, and the additional cost of selling fair trade goods is marginal, especially when you are talking about people buying a cup of coffee or tea at a cafe--you could go to Starbucks and probably pay more, and it probably isn't as good.

For example, I know that people come from miles around just to get the coffee at Seven Stones cafe, and there are plenty of other good places as well--the Coffee Club, Koffee Korner and more etc--there's plenty of competition to drive innovation within the context of selling fair trade. And not just with things like coffee--there are shops that sell other fair trade goods.

The other side is that the idea of fair trade gets a boost as a side effect of the PR that Media does in the Philadelphia area (and through partnerships with other towns as noted in the video), sponsoring fair trade festivals and such to get the idea out. In order for fair trade to work, you need to make sure that there is a viable supply chain, as well as sufficient demand to make that small extra effort to seek out fair trade goods.

BrianIs AtYou