In my humble opinion this refers to 1948 by Orwell who says that liberty is the liberty to say that two and two is four. All the rest comes from that.I have been told that one of the slogans for Solidarnosc was that two plus two should always equal four...apparently a take off of a joke that it equaled whatever the Party told you it did. (poster) Truth tends to be a powerful remedy for distortions of it.
Polish president is dead in plane crash.
"nolite te bastardes carborundorum".
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WampusCat
- Creature of the night
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I have been longing to dig out my old Solidarnosc t-shirt and wear it for the stunned people of Poland, including you, Ro. Unfortunately, I have outgrown it. But I wear it in my head, and I ache for a nation that has lost so much, in 1940 and now.
Thank you for writing about your own connections to those who died in the plane crash and about your own feelings. It helps me to understand better. It makes it more personal, closer.
Tomorrow my newspaper, which is highly biased toward putting local news on the front page, is running a large, front-page photo of mourning in Poland. I guess tragedy brings the far-away near.
Thank you for writing about your own connections to those who died in the plane crash and about your own feelings. It helps me to understand better. It makes it more personal, closer.
Tomorrow my newspaper, which is highly biased toward putting local news on the front page, is running a large, front-page photo of mourning in Poland. I guess tragedy brings the far-away near.
I have been thinking about this subject a lot, recently, since the History Channel is running a series - WORLD WAR II: LOST FILMSWampusCat wrote: Tomorrow my newspaper, which is highly biased toward putting local news on the front page, is running a large, front-page photo of mourning in Poland. I guess tragedy brings the far-away near.
There is a very powerful interview in the April 2010 issue of SKY Magazine with one of the veterans whose story is featured during the series:WWII Lost Films is the first documentary to show World War II as it really was, in original, immersive colour.
Selected from thousands of hours of never before or rarely seen archive footage obtained from an exhaustive worldwide search, World War II Lost Films will forever change how we view the war. Featuring the voices of well-known actors, including Rob Lowe and LL Cool J, this visually astonishing landmark series presents the story of World War II through the eyes of 12 Americans who experienced the conflict firsthand.
Here are some selective quotes:
Living in this day and age of instant digital information transfer, I just find it so shocking to realize how little was known about what was going on in other parts of the world 60 years ago.."When I took part in the Second World War I was just 19 - I hadn't even learned how to shave. I got my draft notice in my freshman year of college. I was excited. I wanted to get involved. I wanted to pay Japan back for what they had done to us. Our media hadn't told us much about Europe, but we were consumed with Pearl Harbor....
...I was sent to Europe and ended up in Belgium to defend the 80-mile front in the Ardennes, in what was known as the Battle of theBulge. I didn't know why I was in Europe. It was hardly mentioned in US newspapers. The day I experienced my first atrocity I knew why. We saw a woman and her baby, dead and naked in the snow. What those soldiers had doen to them I won't describe but the image will stay with me forever...Overnight I turned from a kid into a man filled with hate....
...I decided to take part in WWII Lost Films on HISTORY because it's vitally important people know what happened 60 years ago. Watching the film, I was fighting back tears. I will never be able to rid myself of thse horrific memories. Thousands of men were killed in the Battle of the Bulge - 19,000 Americans alone - but there was hardly a mention in the newspapers. Our story still isn't being told. It saddens me schools aren't telling our history. The message will be lost one day because Second World War veterans are dying at a rate of 1,000 a day. It won't take long before we're all gone and the memory of that Earth-shattering event will be limited to the printed page and a few film documentaries..."
There is magic in long-distance friendships. They let you relate to other human beings in a way that goes beyond being physically together and is often more profound.
~Diana Cortes
~Diana Cortes
Rodia: 
Thank you for your posts. And Frelga, too.
The 20th century seemed worse, I think, because it was "our time". We can't pretend it happened hundreds of years ago when people were uncivilized. It happened in the same world as the movie Gone With the Wind, with airplanes, radio, the invention of penicillin: the modern world. Maybe it means more to me, since I am very much a child of that century. To most of you, it's ancient history already.
Thank you for your posts. And Frelga, too.
The 20th century seemed worse, I think, because it was "our time". We can't pretend it happened hundreds of years ago when people were uncivilized. It happened in the same world as the movie Gone With the Wind, with airplanes, radio, the invention of penicillin: the modern world. Maybe it means more to me, since I am very much a child of that century. To most of you, it's ancient history already.
That is the saddest thing. I'm young but I've caught the tail end of very bad days, and even that little gives me perspective which I am horrified to see many younger people do not have. At all. They glean the facts and then simplify, idealise... my father sometimes comes back from poetry evenings and tells me, bewildered, what questions were asked. "How could you agree to work in the film industry when we were communist?" is one that comes up often, and it is laced with outrage. Those kids think they would have not only seen the light before anyone else, they think they would have easily sacrificed themselves in the name of principles, stood up against the oppressors and won the fight, just like that. They equate simply LIVING in a socialist society with collaborating with it. They acknowledge only the underground. And my father WAS in the underground. But he also worked above surface, bending over backwards to placate the censors without compromising his beliefs. It was possible. When it wasn't, that was when you went below.vison wrote: To most of you, it's ancient history already.
These kids think they know everything. They forget they benefit from a liberated education, from open media, from the internet, from the knowledge brought by mistakes of so many years- from a long and difficult fight which they can't even understand. They're so cynical, it hurts to listen.
...and I just realised that all has nothing to do with anything. Sorry, I get rambly when I'm emotional.
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Primula Baggins
- Living in hope
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Rodia, that has a lot to do with the world as it is, and you bring a perspective that those of us who grew up in the west can't have and that we rarely have a chance to hear. I learned something from reading your post. It's hardly rambling.
“There, peeping among the cloud-wrack above a dark tor high up in the mountains, Sam saw a white star twinkle for a while. The beauty of it smote his heart, as he looked up out of the forsaken land, and hope returned to him. For like a shaft, clear and cold, the thought pierced him that in the end the Shadow was only a small and passing thing: there was light and high beauty for ever beyond its reach.”
― J.R.R. Tolkien, The Return of the King
― J.R.R. Tolkien, The Return of the King
Thank you so much for those, Mahima. I do appreciate seeing the support...
Sorry I've been quiet. It's insane over here. A week has just passed since the plane crash- sirens and church bells sounded this morning at 8:56.
Warsaw is overflowing with people, I've never seen such crowds. It has been a week and the streets are full.
There are grave candles and flowers everywhere. People stand in line to see the casket of the Presidential couple for as long as 13 hours. I know some didn't make it before the viewing times were over- there will be a mass and ceremony in Warsaw today, and the funeral is in Kraków tomorrow.
I have a train ticket to go there, but the police have closed off certain streets, including the one where I'm supposed to be staying. I'm not sure if they will let me through.
Yesterday another plane full of coffins arrived, our neighbour's among them. We see it all on tv, they transmit every return. Soldiers bring them out, one by one, and set them on makeshift catafalques on the tarmac as an orchestra plays Chopin's funeral march. Then the families welcome their dead home.
Then the coffins are driven across town to the sports stadium- because where else can you place nearly a hundred caskets? After the mass today they will be taken across the country to wherever their families wish to bury them.
Yesterday, we buried the first one- his name was Ryszard Kaczorowski and he was our last President in Exile. I took a photo of a scene dripping with symbolism, but moving in a very honest and straightforward way:
Let me explain.
The body has just been taken into the Sacred Cross Church for its funeral mass.
This church (a basilic actually) is special.
Look at the Christ figure draped in the Polish flag. There is an extremely famous photograph of that same figure, taken during the Warsaw Uprising in 1944: http://pl.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?tit ... 0127023655
Fallen among the rubble, Christ still points at the heavens.
Today, only those with special passes can attend the mass, the rest can only pay their respects with a moment of silence outside. This frail, elderly woman standing watching is wearing a white and red AK armband. AK stands for Armia Krajowa, the Home Army, the Polish resistance movement of WW2.
This woman fought for our freedom. Her armband says 'Komenda Główna', which means Headquarters. She was an officer.
More pictures here: http://www.flickr.com/photos/cefeida/se ... 747372859/ and in my sister's photoset: http://www.flickr.com/photos/samolot/se ... 841787696/
(cross-posting this to other forums where I've talked about this)
Sorry I've been quiet. It's insane over here. A week has just passed since the plane crash- sirens and church bells sounded this morning at 8:56.
Warsaw is overflowing with people, I've never seen such crowds. It has been a week and the streets are full.
There are grave candles and flowers everywhere. People stand in line to see the casket of the Presidential couple for as long as 13 hours. I know some didn't make it before the viewing times were over- there will be a mass and ceremony in Warsaw today, and the funeral is in Kraków tomorrow.
I have a train ticket to go there, but the police have closed off certain streets, including the one where I'm supposed to be staying. I'm not sure if they will let me through.
Yesterday another plane full of coffins arrived, our neighbour's among them. We see it all on tv, they transmit every return. Soldiers bring them out, one by one, and set them on makeshift catafalques on the tarmac as an orchestra plays Chopin's funeral march. Then the families welcome their dead home.
Then the coffins are driven across town to the sports stadium- because where else can you place nearly a hundred caskets? After the mass today they will be taken across the country to wherever their families wish to bury them.
Yesterday, we buried the first one- his name was Ryszard Kaczorowski and he was our last President in Exile. I took a photo of a scene dripping with symbolism, but moving in a very honest and straightforward way:
Let me explain.
The body has just been taken into the Sacred Cross Church for its funeral mass.
This church (a basilic actually) is special.
Look at the Christ figure draped in the Polish flag. There is an extremely famous photograph of that same figure, taken during the Warsaw Uprising in 1944: http://pl.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?tit ... 0127023655
Fallen among the rubble, Christ still points at the heavens.
Today, only those with special passes can attend the mass, the rest can only pay their respects with a moment of silence outside. This frail, elderly woman standing watching is wearing a white and red AK armband. AK stands for Armia Krajowa, the Home Army, the Polish resistance movement of WW2.
This woman fought for our freedom. Her armband says 'Komenda Główna', which means Headquarters. She was an officer.
More pictures here: http://www.flickr.com/photos/cefeida/se ... 747372859/ and in my sister's photoset: http://www.flickr.com/photos/samolot/se ... 841787696/
(cross-posting this to other forums where I've talked about this)
That picture of the old lady is one of the most moving images I have ever seen. Thank you for posting it.
Although "the Reds" were seen as the enemy then and now, I remember a photo of 2 old Russian women wearing their service medals and armbands, both with stainless steel false teeth, at a memorial in the city once known as Stalingrad. They were veterans, too. I wish I'd saved a copy of that picture.
Although "the Reds" were seen as the enemy then and now, I remember a photo of 2 old Russian women wearing their service medals and armbands, both with stainless steel false teeth, at a memorial in the city once known as Stalingrad. They were veterans, too. I wish I'd saved a copy of that picture.
It is strange, with 'the Reds' as you say. They came to our aid, in a way, they had a part in pushing the Nazis out. For many these were our brothers in arms. Only it soon transpired that the soviet plan was not at all to give us freedom but to take advantage of the situation.
I'm glad you like the photo. It may seem a bit too loaded with symbols but it is authentic.
I'm glad you like the photo. It may seem a bit too loaded with symbols but it is authentic.
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Voronwë the Faithful
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Ro, what do think about the fact that the volcanic ash problem has prevented so many world leaders from attending the funeral? I feel like at least on some level it is serendipitious, in that this is Poland's tragedy, and the focus should be on the grief and healing of the Polish people.
"Spirits in the shape of hawks and eagles flew ever to and from his halls; and their eyes could see to the depths of the seas, and pierce the hidden caverns beneath the world."
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Primula Baggins
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That's a good point, Voronwë. Still, I regret that so many world leaders, including our president, weren't able to be there to represent their people.
“There, peeping among the cloud-wrack above a dark tor high up in the mountains, Sam saw a white star twinkle for a while. The beauty of it smote his heart, as he looked up out of the forsaken land, and hope returned to him. For like a shaft, clear and cold, the thought pierced him that in the end the Shadow was only a small and passing thing: there was light and high beauty for ever beyond its reach.”
― J.R.R. Tolkien, The Return of the King
― J.R.R. Tolkien, The Return of the King
Honestly...I think it was already very clear from the intended arrivals that the world is in solidarity with us. We needed that, we felt it. We appreciate it. An important gesture in such a time- a gesture which might prove very significant politically. Because Poland often feels like the forgotten, unimportant little country which no one cares about until it's time for titans to clash again.
I attended the funeral. Well, by that I mean I was outside in Krakow's main square, among the crowd and flags. Only at the very end of the mass did I manage to get to my aunt's apartment- the street she lives on had been closed off and police would not let me through. There was a ban on opening windows, but no one cared much, since we supposed it was because of president Obama's security (we're a lot more carefree with our leaders here, as was painfully proved last week) , and he didn't come anyway- so I did get pictures of the coffins being carried out of the church.
The burial at the Wawel is extremely controversial- it is the highest honour, bar none. Wawel is the burial place of kings, the castle of what was once our capital, and many people feel that burying the Kaczynskis there is absurd. I agree that they did not deserve this much of an honour- except for the symbolism of their death. And I think in that understanding most of us come together anyway. I am certain that there were sceptics in the crowd today, and yet they too accept that perhaps it is not so much about the president himself, but what his loss represented. The tomb will be inscribed with the names of all the people who died in the plane crash, so through the presidential couple, they too will have their place on the Wawel.
Scattered thoughts again. Sorry. I'm online via my cellphone's connection so no photos today, it can't handle that much data. I need to figure out a way to get out of Krakow, I'm sure the trains will be packed tonight.
I attended the funeral. Well, by that I mean I was outside in Krakow's main square, among the crowd and flags. Only at the very end of the mass did I manage to get to my aunt's apartment- the street she lives on had been closed off and police would not let me through. There was a ban on opening windows, but no one cared much, since we supposed it was because of president Obama's security (we're a lot more carefree with our leaders here, as was painfully proved last week) , and he didn't come anyway- so I did get pictures of the coffins being carried out of the church.
The burial at the Wawel is extremely controversial- it is the highest honour, bar none. Wawel is the burial place of kings, the castle of what was once our capital, and many people feel that burying the Kaczynskis there is absurd. I agree that they did not deserve this much of an honour- except for the symbolism of their death. And I think in that understanding most of us come together anyway. I am certain that there were sceptics in the crowd today, and yet they too accept that perhaps it is not so much about the president himself, but what his loss represented. The tomb will be inscribed with the names of all the people who died in the plane crash, so through the presidential couple, they too will have their place on the Wawel.
Scattered thoughts again. Sorry. I'm online via my cellphone's connection so no photos today, it can't handle that much data. I need to figure out a way to get out of Krakow, I'm sure the trains will be packed tonight.
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WampusCat
- Creature of the night
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Pardon my venturing off-topic, Rodia, but I received my mug and love it. Everyone who has seen it admires it. Thank you for sharing your talent.Rodia wrote:Prints of my art for sale: http://www.redbubble.com/people/magicmadzik
And pretty, pretty mugs to drink your tea in: http://www.zazzle.com/magicmadzik*
Seeing it also reminds me of Poland, and turns my thoughts and prayers that direction.
Last edited by WampusCat on Mon Apr 19, 2010 6:03 pm, edited 1 time in total.
:):):) I hope it is as good quality as it looked on the site. Which one did you get again?Thanks for buying it
I'm on the train home, and the sun is shining. My sunburn isn't as bad as I thought. I have a bag full of 'only in Cracow' seasoned pretzels, because it would be a sin not to take any home (grandpa says).
I guess now we all just have to figure out who we're going to vote for this summer, while the parties have to figure out who is going to campaign.
Ah! I will be adding more, I just haven't had the time recently. I'm sooo glad you like them!
Anyway, here are my photos of the funeral:
http://www.flickr.com/photos/cefeida/se ... 890016540/
Not as good as I hoped, not as bad as I expected. The pictures, I mean. The funeral itself was astounding.
No descriptions on the photos yet, I have a headache from all the sun and travel, and possibly from being in the same set of clothes since saturday morning. But I'm glad I went.
I will be adding more, I just haven't had the time recently. I'm sooo glad you like them!Anyway, here are my photos of the funeral:
http://www.flickr.com/photos/cefeida/se ... 890016540/
Not as good as I hoped, not as bad as I expected. The pictures, I mean. The funeral itself was astounding.
No descriptions on the photos yet, I have a headache from all the sun and travel, and possibly from being in the same set of clothes since saturday morning. But I'm glad I went.