World's first operational laser weapon

[sauronsfinger]

Japan was on its last legs in August of 1945 and the end was very near for them regardless of the use of the A bomb. History clearly shows that. Their hollow threats about fighting to the last man, woman and child clearly were baseless and without meaning because they failed to do that. The historical record shows us that.

The airplane was suppose to end land wars with large land armies.
It did not.

The atomic bomb was suppose to end war because no nation dare to risk complete extermination. However, within just a few years of the use of it, we were fighting a war in Korea, and later Viet Nam and now in the Middle East. And that is only the USA. There are many others to list.

Newer machines of death do not bring peace.
The historical record clearly shows that.
I sincerely wish it were different.

[Teremia]

Hal, while you may be nostalgic for Mutual Assured Destruction, I'm definitely nostalgic for rocks.



If you look back over pretty recent history, you see human beings have been willing to do absolutely horrible things to each other. There IS no weapon too terrible for a human being to think of using it. That's the sad truth.

There was a moment during the dissolution of the Russian Empire (late 80's - early 90's? I remember having these thoughts, but not exactly when) when we could have gone in and paid money to have the Soviet nukes destroyed. We couldn't be bothered at that point, but it might have been a good idea.

I'm for keeping dangerous toys out of the hands of volatile boys (of all political stripe) as much as possible. (Not very possible, is it?)

[Primula Baggins]

Hal, if you were my age you wouldn't say that. Living with the idea that there were so many fingers on so many buttons all over the world, and that one button getting pressed out of insanity or misunderstanding or deliberate will to destroy could result in, literally, the end of civilization—and ordinary people like you and me could do nothing to prevent it, nothing to change the situation. It was nightmarish, when we thought about it (which most people didn't allow themselves to do). It was not a sane way to live.

I am so glad that the world has changed as much as it has. As dangerous as it still is, that was worse by an order of magnitude, in a way that's hard to understand if you didn't live through it and are considering it intellectually.

[River]

The atom bomb as a peace enforcement tool is tenuous at best. Having seen what the first generation of bombs can do, no one really wants to do it again. But that didn't stop us from fighting a lot of proxy wars during the Cold War. Nor does the horror of the A-bomb eliminate the threat of a sociopath pushing the button because they feel like and think the rest of us deserve it.

The reason I'm wondering what wavelength they use for those lasers is I'm wondering if this isn't the dark offspring of S's thesis. Probably not - he thinks his stuff was all radar related, though I did get a chill. He has worked on power amplifiers for IR lasers as well and says the basic principles are the same as what he did for his graduate work.

The IR lasers S worked on are used in industry for etching, so I guess laser weapons were just a matter of time. S tested his work by setting popsicle sticks on fire. He's burned himself a couple times too. I've yelled at him for it - having worked with x-rays, I don't buy the "I couldn't see the beam" excuse. Light travels in a straight line. It's not that hard to figure out where your beam is, even if you can't see it.

[Voronwë the Faithful]

I'm definitely in Einstein's camp: "One cannot simultaneously prevent and prepare for war." Naive as that sentiment is, I believe that we need to somehow find a way to adopt it. As Herman Wouk states in the Foreword to his great World War II epic War and Remembrance, quoting one of his own characters, "Either war is finished, or we are."

[Crucifer]

Naive as that sentiment is,

Is it really that naive? So long as we prepare for war, war is inevitable, whether the preparations are as a deterrent or not.

While the immediate termination of all military action (including technological and scientific progress in that sector) is impossible, surely the continuing advancement of one nation or another's military skill will be seen as a threat by others, and lead to further rivalry and tension, as seen in the Cold War.

[Frelga]

Personally, I wish we all had weapons so terrible that no one could even think of using them... we are pretty close to that now... we just also have leaders of some countries who are insane.

I don't think there is any weapon so terrible that someone wouldn't use it, lightly and gleefully.

Soli, you think this is a great bit of news. Will you still think that when the technology falls in the hands in our enemies, as it inevitably will? When it's American soldiers who risk being turned into living torches?

Truman may have thought he had an ace in his hands with the first A bomb, but the Soviets detonated First Lightning in 1949.

[Maria]

I think the laser gizmo is really cool, because I'm a lifetime sci fi nut and I absolutely love anything that brings us closer to the future of interplanetary space travel and/or space battles.

And you just can't have space opera battles without directed energy weapons of some sort. This is the first. Hooray! Having lasers/ phasers/ blasters just makes the whole futuristic scenario one step closer.

I'm ready for the flying cars, now... and a vacation on the Moon, maybe...

[yovargas]

But there are "cool future" stories and there are "dystopian future" stories. This kind of thing sounds more like the latter than the former to me.

[Maria]

Star Wars, Star Trek, Babylon 5, Farscape, Stargate.....

[Frelga]

The interesting thing about Star Trek is that characters live under communism as it was explained to me in school.

[Voronwë the Faithful]

Frelga, this may be asking way too much (and if it is, either just ignore this or say so), but I would be extremely interested in reading about how communism was explained to you in school (in a separate thread, of course).

[Frelga]

Oh, I'm always happy to gab about things like that. I'll try and slap up something coherent.

[Jnyusa]

As long as I'm here .....

I never thought I'd live to see the day when the topic of a thread at the Hall of Fire would be praise for a weapon that burns people alive.

[Maria]

OK, dropping the "this is sci fi come to life" attitude-- this weapon is cool because it is much more precise than a bomb. Precision is a good thing in warfare. Unless warfare is eliminated altogether, better and more precise weapons are to be applauded. There is less collateral damage that way.

[solicitr]

It takes but one foe to breed war, not two; and those who have no swords may still die upon them.

[Voronwë the Faithful]

solicitr, one of the things that we are discouraging is the posting of quotations with no commentary. Please take a moment to familiarize yourself with the new guidelines for political discussions in this forum.

[solicitr]

Oh, please, Vor: this one is so well-known and proverbial among Tolkien readers it speaks for itself.

1290 years ago this week, the rampaging Arab armies of the Caliph Umar II besieged but failed to take Constantinople. They were defeated in equal parts by the city's mighty walls, the pinnacle of Roman military architecture, and by the use of 'Greek Fire,' a weapon whose details are unknown but which was a sort of ancient napalm. Thus military technology affects history.

Seven centuries later, Constantinople finally did fall- its walls breached by the largest cannons in the world up to that time.


Bringing the discussion around to the present: for almost twenty years the US has backed off on developiong new military tech, because the factor which had driven it, Soviet competition, was deemed to be a thing of the past. Even those programs which survived the axe, like the F-22, wewe grievously reduced: instead of replacing the F-15 (about 750 aircraft), the F-22 program has been reduced to a mere 170 units.

The problem is, the Russians never really went away, and it's clear that the F-15 cannot dominate the new generation of Russian fighters like it did the previous one.

The Navy is in even more dire straits: the F/A-18 is now our *only* carrier-based combat aircraft. It's supposed to fill the roles formerly handled by the F-14 interceptor, A-7 light attack, A-6 medium attack, KA-6 tanker, Eä-6 jammer, even the S-3 antisub aircraft. Yeah, right.

The 'peace dividend' meant the cancellation of the A-12 stealth attack, the DDG-21 destroyer, the Seawolf-class submarine after two units, the reduction of the carrier fleet to a mere 11 ships with understrength airwings, the scrapping not merely of obsolescent and worn-out ships of Vietnam vintage, but perfectly effective ships like the Spruance and Perry classes.

And now, with the Bear resurgent, and the announcement by the Russian defense minister that the Kremlin aims to re-establish the power and reach of the old Red Fleet, we have a candidate who promises to cancel all ongoing weapons-development and procurement programs.

As Gandalf would say, "Fool!"

[sauronsfinger]

And now, with the Bear resurgent, and the announcement by the Russian defense minister that the Kremlin aims to re-establish the power and reach of the old Red Fleet, we have a candidate who promises to cancel all ongoing weapons-development and procurement programs.

As Gandalf would say, "Fool!"

Question: so if we couch insults and sarcasm within the words or works of Professor Tolkien, then thats perfectly fine?

Just asking.

Calling someone a FOOL just because they support peace and are not comfortable with spending billions of dollars for the newest weapons of death seems a bit over the top to me.

[Voronwë the Faithful]

No, sf, couching insultings in Tolkien-speak is not acceptable. However, this gives me an opportunity to say something that I wanted to say yesterday, but didn't get a chance to. If people see something that they consider inappropriate or in violation of the new guidelines, it would be better by far to bring it to my or one of the other Marshals attention rather than commenting about it in the thread, because then it becomes impossible for us to address it without having to edit multiple posts. I'm going to add this reminder to the new sticky about the new guidelines.