Marketing the candidates

[Voronwë the Faithful]

Sorry for the embarassing typo, though I'm glad I amused you, Maria. solictr, please check your PMs.

[yovargas]

(I'm pretty sure Maria was serious. )

[Voronwë the Faithful]

I'm pretty sure that Maria knew that I meant to type "rubbish" not "rubbage", yov.

[Maria]

I'm pretty sure I'm going to use that word tonight when I get home and rub my puppy's tummy! "Ohhhhhh, you want some rubbage on your tummy? Oh, you cute iddy bitty baby doggie, you! "

I figured someone had misspelled it "rubbish" but was too lazy to go look for it. However, a search of this message board finds it on 3 threads! And you know what? If there hadn't been doubt in my mind, I wouldn't have googled and found the quoted meanings.

edit: So, the previous laughter was more in delight at a new and usable word than making fun of your typing, Voronwë.

edit2: I'll try to get a picture of tummy rubbage...

[yovargas]

And I'm pretty sure I have no idea what I'm talking about.

(At work, I don't usually see the smileys which can sometimes alter things pretty seriously!)

[vison]

Rubbage!!!! It's all rubbage.

Grrrr . . . .

No, wait . . . .

I think it's a very useful word, myself. A combination of RUBBish and garBAGE, and that's neato.

My English friend says "rammel" for "rubbish". And sometimes she says a thing is "dead mankey". My grandson thought she was saying "dead monkey" with an English accent.

Hilarity ensued.

[Padme]

:waives: to the rubbage.

[Voronwë the Faithful]

[BrianIsSmilingAtYou]

Out of that income it paid $9,302,000 in income taxes, which was an effective tax rate of 46%. I'm not sure how their effective tax rate is higher than the corporate rate; is it possible that they pay additional taxes specifically because they are an oil company. If so, I'd guess their lobbying has not been particularly effective.

That is really curious. I don't see how an effective rate could be higher than a marginal rate unless it is an artifact of the reporting system.

• it could be that tax penalties are being reported as taxes. This would show up in the annual report but might not be separated out on the financial statements ... or, perhaps, not on the abbreviated prospecti that might appear on a trading website?

• could they be paying US taxes on the earnings of a foreign subsidiary whose financials are unconsolidated? Although why these would show on the parents financials I also can't figure out, unless it's some accounting rigamarole that allows them to report it this way.

• I don't think they can report the cost of government licensing costs as taxes ... but are you sure all the 'payments to government' are actually profits taxes? Is that where they are actually shown, under "Corporate Profits Tax"?

I went to Exxon's site and took the link for the online version of their 2007 annual report, which is hosted by Thomson Financial.

The numbers there are consistent with the approximately 42% effective rate for the last 3 quarters of 2007 that I posted, which is slightly less that the 46% rate which was for the 1st quarter of 2008.

Here is the link. The summary income statement is on page 16.

Exxon Mobil 2007 Annual Report


These numbers match what is on the Yahoo link, if you change the yahoo income statement to an annual view.

The yahoo data from my original link is supplied by Edgar online, which is the repository for SEC data, so if it was incorrect that would mean that the SEC filing was incorrect.

I have not seen detailed financial statements that might explain why the rate is so high.

Another perspective on what Exxon pays:

http://mjperry.blogspot.com/2008/02/put ... ctive.html

One commenter to the blog says that the income tax figure also includes income taxes to other jurisdictions, and that the Federal portion of the tax is much lower. I would be interested in confirming what that breakdown is. Some of the commentators do some calculations, for which I do not have a source.

If so, the foreign taxes would be deducted or credited against federal taxes, I would suspect, just as foreign taxes paid by individuals are.

Therefore, to get a true federal effective tax rate, you would have to make the necessary adjustments by deducting the foreign taxes and dividing the net federal tax into the adjusted income.

BrianIs AtYou

[Voronwë the Faithful]

Thanks for the info, Brian. Very interesting. Here's another interesting fact about Exxon Mobil. Which presidential candidate do you think received more donations from it's employees? That's right, Barack Obama. Although McCain has received several times more total donations from oil company employees ($1.3 million compared to about $394,000), Obama leads at some of the biggest, including Exxon Mobil, Chevron and BP. Not quite sure what, if anything that means, but I thought it was worth reporting here.

http://www.opensecrets.org/news/2008/08 ... -mcca.html

[Jnyusa]

[removed]

[Voronwë the Faithful]

Here is a page on factcheck.org describing three new ads that the McCain camp has released (two are radio ads) that they claim contain "multiple false and misleading claims about Obama's tax proposals."

More Tax Deceptions

Not surprisingly, I don't like this kind of thing at all. I didn't like it when Obama did it with his "Pocket" ad that misleads the viewer into thinking that McCain is proposing giving specific tax breaks to big oil, when that simply isn't the case. I have no problem with attacking the other side's actually positions, but I really dislike basing attacks on deception like this.

Meanwhile, I do like Obama's new Olympic ad. It is hopeful, which I think is what got him here in the first place. And, as Faramond has repeatedly stated would be a good thing, it focuses on renewable energy, which I really like. And it focuses on creating new jobs, which is really key.

Obama's Olympic Ad

I wish this is the type of thing that he would continue to focus on, rather than doing negative attack ads. Alas, I suspect that after the Olympics it will be back to more of the same old same old. We'll see.

[sauronsfinger]

Sometimes I feel like Jerry Mathers on the old "Leave It To Beaver" Tv sitcom.

"Gee Wally, why would a smart guy like John McCain lie about Obama like that."

"Wise up Beav. Its just part of the slimey things guys do to win an election. McCain knows its not true but thats just what guys like him do."

[Primula Baggins]

SF, did that post have any point beyond slamming McCain?

[sauronsfinger]

Yes. It followed up on the information and link provided by Voronwë by providing both historical and cultural perspective. Valuable services in this day of confusion and moral indecision.

[Primula Baggins]

I'm not buying it, as you probably guessed. Do please try to give all of your posts content beyond the negative. This has been a contentious thread, but it's also a topic on which a lot can actually be said.


Edited to clarify: I did not mean to imply that sauronsfinger's posts are all purely negative.

[solicitr]

Vor, I'm also very disappointed that the Mccain camp has taken the low road. The "Celebrity" and "The One" ads were fun. This is just classic sleaze. A pox on it!

That would explain the difference because just about every country in the world has higher marginal tax rates than we do.

(Absent) Jny, that's untrue. The US has the second-highest corporate taxes in the First World (one factor behind offshoring).

[sauronsfinger]

Primula - every 100 posts or so I try to squeeze in something constructive.

[solicitr]

The idealists at work:

Nearly 10,000 of the biggest donors to Republican candidates and causes across the country will probably receive a foreboding “warning” letter in the mail next week.

http://www.nytimes.com/2008/08/08/us/po ... onate.html
This crusader for social justice' previous credits include the General Betray-us ad.

Here is an example of this latest tactic by the Hope & Change Brigade:



In related news, Judicial Watch has announced it will investigate Accountable America for violation of, inter alia, the Ku Klux Klan Act:

http://www.judicialwatch.org/news/2008/ ... servatives

[sauronsfinger]

... and this sort of thing surprises you because ........???????