The Obama Phenomenon and the 2008 Presidential Campaign
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Vison, it was Jonathan Swift of Gulliver fame not the good and humane Dr Johnson. I know you care about such things.
Your anecdotal proof is ok then soli but not anyone's who contradicts your ideological opinion that anything to do with the state is malevolent. My higher (perhaps) taxes pay for the poorest in the land to get the most expensive treatment they need be they wastrels, criminals or immigrants who have not paid in to the system. I am perfectly happy with that. You see, you hear about our system through your political filters wherever they are. Our system isn't perfect and we spend a lot of time grumbling about it and trying to get it better but that's because we own it, commie dupes as we are.
Your anecdotal proof is ok then soli but not anyone's who contradicts your ideological opinion that anything to do with the state is malevolent. My higher (perhaps) taxes pay for the poorest in the land to get the most expensive treatment they need be they wastrels, criminals or immigrants who have not paid in to the system. I am perfectly happy with that. You see, you hear about our system through your political filters wherever they are. Our system isn't perfect and we spend a lot of time grumbling about it and trying to get it better but that's because we own it, commie dupes as we are.
- solicitr
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-----“A democracy cannot exist as a permanent form of government. It can only exist until the voters discover that they can vote themselves largesse from the public treasury. From that moment on, the majority always votes for the candidates promising the most benefits from the public treasury with the result that a democracy always collapses over loose fiscal policy, followed always by a dictatorship. The average age of the world’s greatest civilizations has been 200 years.”
– Alexander Fraser Tytler, Lord Woodhouselee, 1797
No, you don't own it. The State owns it. If you've bought into the platitude that 'Government = the people' then you've been sold a bill of goods....but that's because we own it....
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Judging by the recent election, large numbers of your countrymen are not perfectly happy with it.My higher (perhaps) taxes pay for the poorest in the land to get the most expensive treatment they need be they wastrels, criminals or immigrants who have not paid in to the system. I am perfectly happy with that.
Last edited by solicitr on Wed May 14, 2008 5:59 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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- Voronwë the Faithful
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I'm going to split off the discussion of health care. Please don't make any responses that relate both to that issue and the election while the split is in process.
Edit: I see yov has started a new thread, which complicates things. I guess I'll leave this one alone, and just "encourage" people to take the discussion of health care to the new thread, without moving the posts.
Edit: I see yov has started a new thread, which complicates things. I guess I'll leave this one alone, and just "encourage" people to take the discussion of health care to the new thread, without moving the posts.
"Spirits in the shape of hawks and eagles flew ever to and from his halls; and their eyes could see to the depths of the seas, and pierce the hidden caverns beneath the world."
- Primula Baggins
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You're reading something into my post that isn't there, soli. I was just noting a fact. My husband is a middle manager and also gets bonuses (though they don't seem to be related to any factor he can figure out ). However, we have friends at the same level of employment who don't get so much as a free turkey at Christmas and haven't for years. It's hardly cause for aghast armwaving, even from someone like me, but it is a fact.solicitr wrote:Oh come on, Prim. I would think you would know better than this sort of 'people vs. the moneybags' rhetoric. Susan is a middle manager and her compensation package is not remotely unusual.Most people don't get bonuses of any kind, so that motivational source isn't available except to execs—who seem to get bonuses no matter how things are going.
“There, peeping among the cloud-wrack above a dark tor high up in the mountains, Sam saw a white star twinkle for a while. The beauty of it smote his heart, as he looked up out of the forsaken land, and hope returned to him. For like a shaft, clear and cold, the thought pierced him that in the end the Shadow was only a small and passing thing: there was light and high beauty for ever beyond its reach.”
― J.R.R. Tolkien, The Return of the King
― J.R.R. Tolkien, The Return of the King
It was a direct quote from your post, one I found very memorable because it really illuminated your perspective. And if I'm the Left...solicitr wrote:A cheap shot, Frelga, but increasingly common from the Left.Frelga wrote:Alatar wrote:How bizarre! Which planet are you on Soli?
One where not buying a Mercedes every month is a proof of fiscal prudence and an example to those who can't afford weekly groceries.
If there was anything that depressed him more than his own cynicism, it was that quite often it still wasn't as cynical as real life.
Terry Pratchett, Guards! Guards!
Terry Pratchett, Guards! Guards!
- Primula Baggins
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Oh, c'mon, we all know how dangerous you are, Frelga.
“There, peeping among the cloud-wrack above a dark tor high up in the mountains, Sam saw a white star twinkle for a while. The beauty of it smote his heart, as he looked up out of the forsaken land, and hope returned to him. For like a shaft, clear and cold, the thought pierced him that in the end the Shadow was only a small and passing thing: there was light and high beauty for ever beyond its reach.”
― J.R.R. Tolkien, The Return of the King
― J.R.R. Tolkien, The Return of the King
- axordil
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HP would kill to be us right now. Mind you, I'm an IBMer by purchase, not choice, but we've actually been doing very well since the dark days of the early '90s.solicitr wrote:No, but certainly heavily bureaucratized and hidebound- which is (in part) why outfits like Microsoft and HP have beaten up on it so.Yeah, IBM is certainly a rogue company.
If you want to talk hidebound, then you DO want to talk insurance. Insurance companies routinely lag ten years behind others in adopting technology, for example. Only things like HIPAA goose them forward.
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The only other post that I could find that you have made here that mentions "mercedes" is this one:solicitr wrote:Which post of mine? (the forum software's search function is pretty useless for long threads)
viewtopic.php?p=108808#108808Excuse me, Holby? If one wants to compare the cost to the nation, then the proportion of national wealth expended is the only rational measure. For a family on the poverty line, a Camry is far more expensive than a Mercedes is for a millionaire.
That hardly seems the same as what Frelga said.
"Spirits in the shape of hawks and eagles flew ever to and from his halls; and their eyes could see to the depths of the seas, and pierce the hidden caverns beneath the world."
- Primula Baggins
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The Obama campaign is going to announce a "major endorsement" at 7 PM (I presume Eastern, or in about 3 1/2 hours). Early betting seems to be on Edwards. Now, the campaign has done this before and then announced a couple of minor superdelegates.
However, when asked if it's Edwards, campaign officials are not answering at all.
However, when asked if it's Edwards, campaign officials are not answering at all.
“There, peeping among the cloud-wrack above a dark tor high up in the mountains, Sam saw a white star twinkle for a while. The beauty of it smote his heart, as he looked up out of the forsaken land, and hope returned to him. For like a shaft, clear and cold, the thought pierced him that in the end the Shadow was only a small and passing thing: there was light and high beauty for ever beyond its reach.”
― J.R.R. Tolkien, The Return of the King
― J.R.R. Tolkien, The Return of the King
Not that one, but thanks for looking, V. I'll find it when I get home.Voronwë_the_Faithful wrote:The only other post that I could find that you have made here that mentions "mercedes" is this one:solicitr wrote:Which post of mine? (the forum software's search function is pretty useless for long threads)
viewtopic.php?p=108808#108808Excuse me, Holby? If one wants to compare the cost to the nation, then the proportion of national wealth expended is the only rational measure. For a family on the poverty line, a Camry is far more expensive than a Mercedes is for a millionaire.
That hardly seems the same as what Frelga said.
If there was anything that depressed him more than his own cynicism, it was that quite often it still wasn't as cynical as real life.
Terry Pratchett, Guards! Guards!
Terry Pratchett, Guards! Guards!
- Primula Baggins
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Edwards is indeed endorsing Obama in a couple of hours, according to ABC News.
“There, peeping among the cloud-wrack above a dark tor high up in the mountains, Sam saw a white star twinkle for a while. The beauty of it smote his heart, as he looked up out of the forsaken land, and hope returned to him. For like a shaft, clear and cold, the thought pierced him that in the end the Shadow was only a small and passing thing: there was light and high beauty for ever beyond its reach.”
― J.R.R. Tolkien, The Return of the King
― J.R.R. Tolkien, The Return of the King
I saw him recently on one of the shows, and he said some very positive things about Clinton while opining that it was no longer possible for her to win the nomination. I hope he will use the same approach here. A well-crafted speech focusing on healing might serve to trigger the beginnings of a rapprochement between the camps.
Avatar photo by Richard Lykes, used with permission.
- Primula Baggins
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I hope so, Cerin.
Edwards was the candidate I supported first, so I'm glad about this. He has some good ideas, and I'd hope to see him with some role in an Obama administration, if it happens.
Edwards was the candidate I supported first, so I'm glad about this. He has some good ideas, and I'd hope to see him with some role in an Obama administration, if it happens.
“There, peeping among the cloud-wrack above a dark tor high up in the mountains, Sam saw a white star twinkle for a while. The beauty of it smote his heart, as he looked up out of the forsaken land, and hope returned to him. For like a shaft, clear and cold, the thought pierced him that in the end the Shadow was only a small and passing thing: there was light and high beauty for ever beyond its reach.”
― J.R.R. Tolkien, The Return of the King
― J.R.R. Tolkien, The Return of the King
- Voronwë the Faithful
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Cerin, I would be shocked if Edwards did not make a point of praising Clinton, as he should.
Frelga, I'll look forward to seeing what post you actually meant, if you can find it.
Frelga, I'll look forward to seeing what post you actually meant, if you can find it.
"Spirits in the shape of hawks and eagles flew ever to and from his halls; and their eyes could see to the depths of the seas, and pierce the hidden caverns beneath the world."
Sheesh, the pre-news about it IS the news. The poor guy doesn't have anything to say now. (Why is that always the case nowadays?)Primula Baggins wrote:Edwards is indeed endorsing Obama in a couple of hours, according to ABC News.
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Well, I've got CNN up in another window and I'm listening. Obama just started talking—apologizing to Michigan because he didn't campaign there and saying, "So I decided that I would try to give you something special."
And here comes Edwards.
Edit: So Edwards spoke, then Obama spoke—and to play them off after the speech? "Signed, Sealed, and Delivered." ("Oo babe, here I am, signed, sealed, delivered, I'm yours!").
And here comes Edwards.
Edit: So Edwards spoke, then Obama spoke—and to play them off after the speech? "Signed, Sealed, and Delivered." ("Oo babe, here I am, signed, sealed, delivered, I'm yours!").
“There, peeping among the cloud-wrack above a dark tor high up in the mountains, Sam saw a white star twinkle for a while. The beauty of it smote his heart, as he looked up out of the forsaken land, and hope returned to him. For like a shaft, clear and cold, the thought pierced him that in the end the Shadow was only a small and passing thing: there was light and high beauty for ever beyond its reach.”
― J.R.R. Tolkien, The Return of the King
― J.R.R. Tolkien, The Return of the King